Real İslam is only in Quran

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The donkey's name does not appear in the Quran. But the story does.

I also wonder if Emre celebrates the annual Islamic festival commemorating the asscent of the prophet to heaven...on a winged horse called Burak. I would wonder if he is hard-line consistent and does not.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
The donkey's name does not appear in the Quran. But the story does.
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It doesn’t. The magical journey is there, but nothing about the method. The reference is


That translates as “Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.“

There are five references to donkeys and eleven to horses in the Quran. None have wings, and none are related to this. Insisting it’s in the Quran is wrong.

I also wonder if Emre celebrates the annual Islamic festival commemorating the asscent of the prophet to heaven...on a winged horse called Burak. I would wonder if he is hard-line consistent and does not.
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This festival is why I know so much about this story - a colleague did a lunch and learn session on it and the other Islamic holidays last year. She absolutely believes it to be true (despite being a scientist by training).

As you say, if Emre is such a Quran originalist, then he should decry those taking part as blasphemers.

ETA - also, the horse/donkey in the Hadith was just to get to the (actually long destroyed) temple in Jerusalem. Mohammed’s ascent to heaven was done by Jibril (Gabriel in the bible), all in the same night!
 
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Norman Alexander said:
I understand the words. But they are slippery things.

Here is an early Islamic depiction of the ascension of the prophet. He is riding Buraq to heaven, assisted by Gabriel. Did the Islamic painter get it wrong?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...-Buraq-toward-Ali-as-a-leonine_fig4_369997987
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Well, obviously he got it wrong because it’s total ******* nonsense.

But accepting the fairy tale, I haven’t read enough of the Hadiths to know if there are different accounts of the same journey, and honestly don’t plan to. But the painter wasn’t painting something from the Quran in the same way that Americans painting Jesus favouring the US aren’t painting something from the bible.
 
Also, that painting’s from about 1000 years after Mohammed lived, so about 70% of the way through the existence of Islam, rather than early. It’s also weird in that it seems to portray as a lion with a woman’s face. I can’t remember exactly what the story is, but apparently a bunch of images of Buraq are painted as women because one Hadith describes him as being ‘beautiful’.

Final also, worth noting that this depiction of Mohammed doesn’t appear to have caused riots!
 
Forgive me, GJ, but I should have been clearer. I was addressing Emre. Your comments are quite valid.

Interestingly, I have recently seen the original of this painting in person, in the Topkapi collection in Istanbul.
 
gypsyjackson said:
Jo

So it’s effectively become canon for the majority of Muslims. To look at it in the Star Trek light, it’s TNG and Voyager, rather than fan fic.

Emre is insisting TOS is the only true Star Trek, none of this later stuff.
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It doesn't matter what people say.

Only God's word, the Koran, is the source of Islam.

By the way, people have misunderstood the division of inheritance in the Quran and have resorted to methods such as avliye.

But I have shown by my analysis that the division of inheritance in the Qur'anic verses is perfect. Now it is being realised all over the world that my analysis shows the truth. In fact, the verses are very clear, but since mankind tends to follow the words of people, not the verses, they cannot see the simple and clear facts.

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3800.msg18204#msg18204
 
Emre_1974tr said:
It doesn't matter what people say.

Only God's word, the Koran, is the source of Islam.
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Why should I believe you and not a Christian saying that about the Bible or a Mormon saying it about the Book of Mormon or etc, etc, etc, etc?

"My religion is the real one" is what EVERY religious person says and you can't all be right. Why are you special?
 
Emre_1974tr said:
It doesn't matter what people say.
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Does it matter what you say? You're reading the Qu'ran and you're trying to tell us what it says. You have a blog you keep trying to send us to that contains your commentary on the Qur'an. What makes that worth reading if it doesn't matter what people say?

Only God's word, the Koran, is the source of Islam.
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Unfortunately you don't speak for all Muslims on this point. Those of us who aren't interested in any form of sectarian squabbles don't see how your faction is any more or less valid than another. Some Muslims look to commentaries and peripheral sources to shape their beliefs. This is common in all religions. You're trying to shape our beliefs by asking us to read your commentaries. How is what you're doing any different or better than what others have done?

But I have shown by my analysis that the division of inheritance in the Qur'anic verses is perfect. Now it is being realised all over the world that my analysis shows the truth. In fact, the verses are very clear...
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Well, no, they aren't. If the only proper way to come to the correct understanding of the Qur'an is through a process of "analysis," then what you end up believing is a product of the analysis, not a product of the text on its own. You read the Qur'an and you arrive at a particular understanding. We read the Qur'an and we arrive at another particular understanding that may be different than yours. Your claim that your version is correct captures the essence of exegesis that you are denying but which we are embracing.

As I wrote, the most insidious interpretation is the one you deny you're making. So you're not really winning any converts by simply throwing out everyone else's analysis because it's not the canonical text, but then proffering your own analysis as somehow authoritative. You don't rise above sectarianism by simply being another sect.
 
Yeah, Emre_1974 talks a lot, but says little and answers nothing.

A poor showing if he tries to convince others to join his sect.
 
Not it's pretty standard. "Witnessing." Don't make an argument, don't have a point, don't respond to criticisms, just keep talking about your religion as if everyone you're talking to has never heard it before. You don't have to actually make a good argument it's the passion (and the martyr-victim complex you get from people not listening and/or getting frustrated from people responding negatively) that matters.

Once you get off the internet where pseudoscientific gibberish apologetics is common, this sort of vague, meaningless rambling to any captive audience you can find really is the most common form of "arguing" religious people do.

Emre I'm from the American South. I've heard this same drivel just in mostly Southern Baptist language my entire childhood. If I grew up other parts of the US it would be the same drivel but in Catholic Language. If I grew up in Utah it would be the same drivel but Mormon language. If I grew up in the Middle East it would the same drivel in Islam. If I grew up in ancient Greece it would be the same drivel but about Zeus.

You can't all be right.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
It doesn't matter what people say.

Only God's word, the Koran, is the source of Islam.
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I knew as soon as I read the horrible verses of eternal hellfire in the Quran that it was not from God. See verses 4.56 and 22.19 and 40.72

Your God is a sadistic monster.

He is also pathetic and needy, because he says (in the first person) at verse 51.56 that he created Jinn and humankind only so they might worship him.

In any case most of the Quran is a poor copy of the bible, without the details and the narrative the bible contains. It includes Noah' ark, and Jonah being swallowed by a big fish and spat up on the shore, and the parting of the red sea. All of these bible stories are nothing but myths and the fact they appear in the Quran as Gods word plainly shows the unholy Quran is bunk.
 
I clearly quote what the verses say. And I read the book in its entirety/And I take the book as a whole. I present my proofs. Those who check what I say see the truth.

For example, I have shown you that there is no animal called Burak in Islam. That is the difference in what I do. If everyone did the same thing and was sincere, almost everyone's understanding of Islam would be one and sectarianism would disappear.

By the way, according to the Qur'an, hell is finite, not infinite. One day hell will disappear with its inhabitants, that is, they will die.

Only paradise and its inhabitants will exist forever.
 
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So, Emre, if Burak does not exist in Islam, why do all Muslims except for you celebrate the prophet's ride to heaven on Burak? Are billions of other Muslims wrong? Remember, many of them are renowned scholars of Islam and you are not.
 
Norman Alexander said:
So, Emre, if Burak does not exist in Islam, why do all Muslims except for you celebrate the prophet's ride to heaven on Burak? Are billions of other Muslims wrong? Remember, many of them are renowned scholars of Islam and you are not.
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Yes. In Emre's eyes, yes, they are. All those billions of Muslims, past, present and future, are all wrong, and only Emre (and his doting harem of female converts) are right.
Some may see this as colossal egotism....I'm sure I couldn't possibly comment.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Yes. In Emre's eyes, yes, they are. All those billions of Muslims, past, present and future, are all wrong, and only Emre (and his doting harem of female converts) are right.
Some may see this as colossal egotism....I'm sure I couldn't possibly comment.
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A new sect, then? Significantly more "pure" than any of the other purist fundamentalist Muslim sects?
 
Emre_1974tr said:
I clearly quote what the verses say. And I read the book in its entirety/And I take the book as a whole. I present my proofs. Those who check what I say see the truth.

By the way, according to the Qur'an, hell is finite, not infinite. One day hell will disappear with its inhabitants, that is, they will die.

Only paradise and its inhabitants will exist forever.
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You do not say the truth about hell, as can be seen in the following verses.

4.93 Who slays a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell forever
4.121 For such their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge from it.
4.169 Except the road of hell, wherein they will abide forever.
11.107 Abiding there so long as the heaven and earth endures.
32.14 Taste the doom of immortality
41.28 the fire, that is their immortal home
72.23 and who disobeys Allah and his messenger , lo! his is the fire of hell, wherein such dwell forever.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
I clearly quote what the verses say.
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No. You preach what you think the verses say. It's impossible to do otherwise.

And I read the book in its entirety/And I take the book as a whole. I present my proofs. Those who check what I say see the truth.
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If the meaning of the text were as clear as you say, there would be no need for a proof. Everyone who read the text would naturally arrive at the same meaning. But that's not the case. There are many commentators who also have a holistic approach and who provide their specific exegesis.

If everyone did the same thing and was sincere, almost everyone's understanding of Islam would be one and sectarianism would disappear.
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Every sectarian dismisses his competitors as misguided and insincere. That's not the answer to the inherent variation in interpreting historical written texts. It's just desperate denial.

Every sectarian proposes that the best remedy for sectarianism is for everyone to respect his sect and forsake all the others. Yes, in a naive way the world would be so much happier from an individual's perspective if everyone else thought and believed as they do. The problem in religion comes when a religion uses its power and influence to force that to be the case. This is why so many of us oppose religion.
 
Look, you have witnessed people in this forum who insist that there is Burak in the verses, although there is no Burak in the verses.

Human beings are problematic, unfortunately. That is why we have to prove something that is obvious again with proofs. The text is perfect and clear, but the people who read it can be problematic. It is these mistakes that I show.

By the way, as you can see, there is no Burak in Islam.
 
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