Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[Steve]

Vixen, how do you know how Bedfordshire fire service files fire reports? How do you know that they have a 'tick box' sheet that is filled out by 'the bod' at the fire station?

Have you got any evidence that this is what happens when they report fires? Can you provide any evidence that is actual evidence and not just speculation from you devoid of links, citations, etc.?

Also, why would they lie on an internal fire service report about whether or not a fire was accidental or deliberate in order to not alert the criminal? How would the criminal know what some tick box form filed away by the Bedfordshire fire service says?

More to the point, on top of knowing what kind of forms the Bedfordshire fire service has for reporting fires, how do you know that they are in the habit of lying on their own report forms about the cause of a fire in order not to alert criminals who have no way of knowing what box was ticked on this supposed form?

You are clearly making this **** as you go along. You laughably and pathetically boast about how you cite and link everything, when you actually cite and link hardly anything, nearly every post of yours is entirely speculation. A bit warning sign is when you start anything with "Think about it..." because what happens then is you just getting into rambling idle speculation about things you couldn't possibly know about, any generally make an absolute embarrassment of yourself, like when you flat out claim that it's dumb to think that a welding machine can melt steel.

If you claim that the dumb remarks you made about welding make sense in context, then you are a liar. I've read those remarks in context, and they are just as dumb in context as they are out of context. No amount of context is going to make any stupider or more ignorant your claim that "it's dumb to think that applying a welding tool to steel will melt it." That's the kind of dumb, ignorant comments you have been throwing around for years now and it's hard to tell if you're just as dishonest as you appear, or if you genuinely think that welding 2 pieces of steel together does not actually involve melting them to get them to fuse together. Sorry to drag up the welding thing again, but I think it's helpful to continually remind Vixen and others in the thread just exactly the kind of ignorance Vixen is happy to blurt out to try and dig herself out of a corner she dug herself into.

Vixen just knows, y'know.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, how do you know how Bedfordshire fire service files fire reports? How do you know that they have a 'tick box' sheet that is filled out by 'the bod' at the fire station?

Have you got any evidence that this is what happens when they report fires? Can you provide any evidence that is actual evidence and not just speculation from you devoid of links, citations, etc.?

Also, why would they lie on an internal fire service report about whether or not a fire was accidental or deliberate in order to not alert the criminal? How would the criminal know what some tick box form filed away by the Bedfordshire fire service says?

More to the point, on top of knowing what kind of forms the Bedfordshire fire service has for reporting fires, how do you know that they are in the habit of lying on their own report forms about the cause of a fire in order not to alert criminals who have no way of knowing what box was ticked on this supposed form?

<snip>

The information came from a comment under a youtube video.

Geoff Campbell
@geoffcampbell7846

I retired from the fire service a fair few years ago, and it may be that the Home Office has, in light of the increase in EV fires, more recently amended the fire reporting form to include specific identification of type of vehicle i.e. Internal combustion engine, Hybrid or EV. The reporting form (in my day) also asked where the fire started, but again, this is for statistical information, and is not meant to be a forensic report. More in-depth investigation reports, if required, can be completed sometimes months after the fire, so this generally isn't what you might find in the newspaper the day after following a fire. Its unwise to be too specific as to a cause of a fire if there is any doubt just in case it ends up in court or in an insurance claim and the fire report is used to misapportion blame.

I am not sure where you get the idea it is 'lying' when it is understood it is only a preliminary observation.

 

[theprestige]

The information came from a comment under a youtube video.

Haha oh wow.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I am not sure where you get the idea it is 'lying' when it is understood it is only a preliminary observation.

So you think stating things you know to be false is not lying if you call them preliminary observations. This ethics thing is more complicated than I realised.

 

[JesseCuster]

The information came from a comment under a youtube video.

Jesus wept.

Are you aware that within the last couple of days you snidely asked someone else for something other than a Twitter post as evidence for something, when you're using YouTube comments and Daily Mail comments as evidence!.

Pure naked hypocrisy and dishonesty. Absolutely shameful Vixen.

 

[Steve]

Jesus wept.

Are you aware that within the last couple of days you snidely asked someone else for something other than a Twitter post as evidence for something, when you're using YouTube comments and Daily Mail comments as evidence!.

Pure naked hypocrisy and dishonesty. Absolutely shameful Vixen.

For a rather long time, and in several threads, Vixen has managed to avoid such admissions even though her dubious sources are painfully obvious to most here. Seems her shield is now starting to slip.

 

[JayUtah]

Unfortunately, one cannot rely on the concept of the 'good chap' when it comes to ethics. Yes, ethics is a very boring subject but one that is important. Safeguarding transparency and ethics in public service is essential.

Sit this one out.

No, seriously. You have absolutely no business trying to lecture anyone on the subject of ethics in public oversight. You are the worst person to do so. Regardless of whether you wear better the label of Armchair Detective or Conspiracy Theorist, you offer nothing of value. Quite the opposite. You source your information and arguments from garbage sources, of which this

The information came from a comment under a youtube video

is only the latest and a relatively benign example. You hide the sources you have learned we don't find credible, but you still use them. You lie incessantly about easily-verified information. You inflate your personal competence and credentials, perhaps in the vain hope that all the crap you just make up will somehow sound plausible. Your increasingly shrill and unhinged offerings here suggest you're more interested in attention than truth.

Those of us who do actually participate in the exercise of public accountability are much better off without your ignorant, selfish interference. And so is the public. We spend years learning how to collect and evaluate evidence. We spend years building and refining models that help us understand the behavior of the world. And most importantly, we sign up to take the public flogging when we're wrong.

You aren't some "investigative journalist," or some noble crusader hoping to hold powerful interests accountable for the good of all. You're just an arrogant, uninformed busybody with an internet connection. So kindly sit down and don't lecture us on the importance of transparency and ethics.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The information came from a comment under a youtube video.




I am not sure where you get the idea it is 'lying' when it is understood it is only a preliminary observation.

So now you rely on YouTube video comments?
Why don't you read the statement by the fire service involved on their official website?

 

[Steve]

So now you rely on YouTube video comments?
Why don't you read the statement by the fire service involved on their official website?

Contradicts her fantasy, of course.

 

[Steve]

No, that is complete bollocks based entirely on your gross ignorance and refusal to do any research that might challenge your opinions.

Just a reminder - Vixen apparently has few opinions of her own. Vixen claims all of her posts are properly researched, referenced, and cited. They are not opinions unless the states "IMO". And when was the last time she did that?

 

[Vixen]

Jesus wept.

Are you aware that within the last couple of days you snidely asked someone else for something other than a Twitter post as evidence for something, when you're using YouTube comments and Daily Mail comments as evidence!.

Pure naked hypocrisy and dishonesty. Absolutely shameful Vixen.

Unlike the Twitter account, this guy is not anonymous.

 

[LondonJohn]

Unlike the Twitter account, this guy is not anonymous.

Dog almighty.

How do you even know whether that's the person's real name? And how do you even know if his claimed credentials are bona fide? You have an awful lot to learn about (amongst many, many other things) how to evaluate a trusted source.

Because for all you (and we) know, this individual might very well be some sad, lonely Walter Mitty fantasist who wants to try to show how "clever" he is on social media by trying to sound knowledgeable and experienced in a field he effectively knows nothing of substance about. This sort of damaged online behaviour is not all that unusual, you know......

 

[Vixen]

Dog almighty.

How do you even know whether that's the person's real name? And how do you even know if his claimed credentials are bona fide? You have an awful lot to learn about (amongst many, many other things) how to evaluate a trusted source.

Because for all you (and we) know, this individual might very well be some sad, lonely Walter Mitty fantasist who wants to try to show how "clever" he is on social media by trying to sound knowledgeable and experienced in a field he effectively knows nothing of substance about. This sort of damaged online behaviour is not all that unusual, you know......

If you click on his name, you'll see he runs a youtube channel, main area of interest: GEDcom and his family tree.

 

[LondonJohn]

If you click on his name, you'll see he runs a youtube channel, main area of interest: GEDcom and his family tree.

I see.

So let's get this right: just because it appears that this person has an interest in genealogy, this...... somehow...... makes him a trusted (/trustworthy) source of expertise & experience regarding various types of vehicle fire?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Steve]

I see.

So let's get this right: just because it appears that this person has an interest in genealogy, this...... somehow...... makes him a trusted (/trustworthy) source of expertise & experience regarding various types of vehicle fire?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

We can see why Vixen has such confidence in this guy. The qualifications of each to comment on the topic at hand are equivalent.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I generally assume people who say extremely stupid things are saying stupid things because they're stupid. It is of course possible that they're doing it for the attention, or for some dishonest purpose, but the obvious explanation is the most generous explanation for their behavior, and also the simplest.

It would be a mistake to think this is just about stupidity. It only seems like stupidity is the cause because you don't appreciate the real motive and why it trumps rationality.

The Luddites didn't oppose new technology because they were stupid. On the contrary, they had a very logical reason - it would cost them their jobs. The anti-vax movement started the same way. This isn't about facts or logic, it's about apposing a technology that threatens their lifestyle. If the Luton carpark fire could be blamed on an EV it would be a huge win for them - and that is all that matters. If they have to lie and misrepresent and browbeat people into believing that it might have been a lithium battery fire, they've won. That prize is well worth being called an idiot on some backwater of the internet that only a few 'skeptics' frequent. All we are doing is providing a training ground for them test out their arguments. If they can stand up to us for over 1000 posts the average mark will be a pushover.

You say it's 'possible' that they're doing it for the attention or some dishonest purpose. But it's more than possible, it's practically guaranteed. Conspiracy theorists who aren't in it for the attention keep it to themselves. Getting attention is what it's all about. The more they can stand up to skeptics the bigger their ego becomes. And because they don't care about truth, it doesn't bother them that it's all lies.

This is why you will never get through to people like this. It's not that they are stupid, but simply that they have different goals and morals than we do. They don't want to accept the truth because it wouldn't serve their agenda.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Unlike the Twitter account, this guy is not anonymous.

You don't know who the commenting account belongs to. It could be you for all we know.

 

[ferd burfle]

Vixen's quote of the YouTube comment:

Geoff Campbell
@geoffcampbell7846

I retired from the fire service a fair few years ago, and it may be that the Home Office has, in light of the increase in EV fires, more recently amended the fire reporting form to include specific identification of type of vehicle i.e. Internal combustion engine, Hybrid or EV. The reporting form (in my day) also asked where the fire started, but again, this is for statistical information, and is not meant to be a forensic report. More in-depth investigation reports, if required, can be completed sometimes months after the fire, so this generally isn't what you might find in the newspaper the day after following a fire. Its unwise to be too specific as to a cause of a fire if there is any doubt just in case it ends up in court or in an insurance claim and the fire report is used to misapportion blame.

Vixen quoted a speculation. Quite the evidence, that

 

[Cosmic Yak]

If you click on the little arrow sign above, you can follow the conversation. To recap, the desirability of hitherto freely available information suddenly withdrawn, and - lo and behold! - we discover Tata has strong connections to Jaguar Land Rover, multi-million investment into South Wales steelworks

The steelworks they are planning to close down, you mean?

In order to decarbonise its steel making processes, Tata wants to close Port Talbot's two blast furnaces, which use coal, and replace them with an electric arc furnace.

The prediction is that some 3,000 jobs will be lost.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-67438563

with undisclosed tax payer grants

Grants of 500 million GBP, which information is freely available online.
https://www.reuters.com/business/britain-provide-621-mln-funding-tata-steel-bbc-2023-09-15/

(=a grant does not need to be paid back) and Tata retaining the Return on Investment, estimated to be circa 16%, which they get to keep as a private company. Similar set up with the Tata gigafactory for the lithium battery factory, with Sunak's wife's father having strong links to the Tata owners.

Any substance here, or do you only have speculation and innuendo?

Oh, and what have we here, Sunak has a 'blind register' of interests, unlike previous PM's.

Let's add 'blind register' to the list of things you clearly know nothing about.

So now we can guess why the Range Rover vehicle make and model has not been revealed to the public.

No: you can spout conspiratorial rubbish all you like, but don't for one moment pretend that anyone else is going along with this.

We don't want to affect the family profits, do we. Here's the rub, the average Brit is happy about this and even gets very very angry at anyone expecting transparency.

I refer you to the BBC article linked above, which makes it very clear that British people are furious about the potential loss of jobs, and have no intention of keeping quiet out of some fictional sense of deference to the upper classes.

 

[LondonJohn]

The steelworks they are planning to close down, you mean?


The prediction is that some 3,000 jobs will be lost.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-67438563



Grants of 500 million GBP, which information is freely available online.
https://www.reuters.com/business/britain-provide-621-mln-funding-tata-steel-bbc-2023-09-15/



Any substance here, or do you only have speculation and innuendo?



Let's add 'blind register' to the list of things you clearly know nothing about.



No: you can spout conspiratorial rubbish all you like, but don't for one moment pretend that anyone else is going along with this.


I refer you to the BBC article linked above, which makes it very clear that British people are furious about the potential loss of jobs, and have no intention of keeping quiet out of some fictional sense of deference to the upper classes.

It's truly pitiful conspiracy-theorising, isn't it? Coupled with an unhealthy (and, frankly, ludicrous) dose of "I am smart enough and curious enough to know the real story here - the rest of you are merely credulous saps".

On top of which, Vixen still has yet to explain quite how & why Beds Fire & Rescue Service should feel the need - or have the need imposed upon it? - to participate in this grand conspiracy theory in order to protect the nefarious interests of the Prime Minister and his wife.

Perhaps in Vixen's head, things went something like this:


<sfx phone rings>

"Hello. Beds Fire & Rescue Service. Office Idiot Jenny speaking. How may I help you?"

<sfx deep, quiet voice with more than a hint of menace>

"Hello Jenny. This is Bob from Rishi Sunak's office. Inter alia it is now circa 09:30 hours on 11th October. In loco parentis, I want to remind you on Rishi's behalf that you work for him, Kemo Sabe? There are to be no slip-ups this time. I trust you know exactly what to do. Nil satis, nisi optimum, Jenny.

<sfx Bob terminates the phone call>

<sfx Jenny dials the extension of Andrew Hopkinson>

"Hello Chief. This is Idiot Jenny from the Comms Department. I just spoke with a nice man from Rishi Sunak's office. He used lots of spurious Latin phrases - I think he was trying to come across as smarter than he really is - but I got the gist of what he was saying."

"Thank you Jenny. I've already spoken with Rishi and his wife personally about this. Their murky and arcane financial investments must be protected at all costs, and we here at Beds Fire & Rescue Service obviously have an obligation to play an active role in the cover-up. So please draft me an internal memo entitled Operation Misdirect with the usual stuff about deceiving the stupid British public and kowtowing to the establishment. You remember, like the memo you wrote last year after we rescued Knebworth's mayor's cat from up that tree?"

"Right away, Chief"

"Oh and Jenny, I'll have a black coffee with three sugars when you've got a moment. I've got a long day of deception, obfuscation and misdirection ahead."