General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[webfusion]

I think it is the Jews who are creating an atmosphere of anger against Jews, because of the revenge they are presently inflicting on Palestinians. It is excessive.

You wanna know what excessive looks like?
How about this little gem from Mr.Nissim, an Israeli politician.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/380617

"What is left in Gaza? Tunnels, Hamas, the accursed terrorists who murdered little children, who are holding our children captive. I always said Hamas was born to murder children and Jews. We need to internalize this." and then he adds... "We need to crush Gaza - there's nothing else to do, Gaza is Hamas."

 

[Planigale]

That report does not corroborate planigale's claim.
Unconfirmed reports of what might have happened, which might include sexual harrasment, not sexual assault- which was the claim- are not proof.
That Shin Bet are nasty bastards is not really in any doubt, and I am not condoning the use of torture or rape on prisoners. I just want to be able to distinguish between exaggerated propaganda and actual fact.
So, any other links? planigale seemed very certain of this, so there must be something out there to support it. As I say, I've looked, but can't find anything.

The NGO Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCATI) reported that “exceptional measures” used by Israeli security personnel against Palestinian security detainees in the West Bank included beatings, forcing an individual to hold a stress position for long periods, threats of rape and physical harm, painful pressure from shackles or restraints applied to the forearms, sleep deprivation, and threats against families of detainees. Women prisoners and detainees reported harassment and abuse in detention by ISF. According to PCATI, there were only three investigations despite more than 1,400 complaints made since 2001; all three cases were closed with no indictment. The average time it took the Office of the Inspector of Interrogee Complaints to conclude the preliminary examination of a complaint filed by PCATI was 44 months, while the longest was 97 months.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/features/palestinian-women-haunted-abuse-israeli-jails

“It’s not something that’s done by an individual soldier who decided to humiliate or mistreat [the prisoners],” she said. “It’s part of the process, part of the policy, in order to affect the entire society and put it under pressure... because they are aware that [gender] is a sensitive subject in Palestinian society.”

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-palestinian-writer-threatened-rape-prison

He was told that female prisoners were threatened with rape and they were subject to a "policy of starvation" in prison.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...rael-of-sexually-abusing-palestine-prisoners/

The report further accused Israel of “invasive strip searches, sexual abuse, and threats” against the 29 Palestinian female prisoners currently held in Israeli jails.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/t...hin-bet-abuse-of-palestinian-detainees-683352

 

[Leumas]

It is hard not to see a strategy by the Israeli leadership of deliberately endangering Jews, both at home and abroad, in the hopes that an attack will justify whatever Netanyahu wants to do.

And Netanyahu has been repeatedly and indefatigably telling the whole world precisely what that is for over 11 years... I give you one guess...

And here is a hint...

[imgw=300]https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2012/09/APTOPIX-UN-General-As_Horo-640x400.jpg[/imgw]​

And here is another hint:

... They better be mindful about how they proceed, The intervention of Yemini Houthi military assets adds a very dangerous dimension to this conflict (even more problematic than Hezbollah).

 

[Stout]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...build-bunker-under-shifa-hospital/ar-AA1jZnXA

A bunker or basement? Ok, we'll go with there's something underground there and that 55 meter tunnel leading to those "blast doors with a firing hole in them" most likely leads t....something. This is getting a little like the opening of Al Capone's vault.

While we wait, we can entertain ourselves with this relevant story from the Daily Mail

What else do I have open here?

Antonio Guterres, did this guy sleep through the Tigray War? Twitter link.

Oh, that's it, I thought there was more.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/features/palestinian-women-haunted-abuse-israeli-jails


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-palestinian-writer-threatened-rape-prison


https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...rael-of-sexually-abusing-palestine-prisoners/


https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/t...hin-bet-abuse-of-palestinian-detainees-683352

Thank you for this.
That is indeed appaling. Despite what certain apoplectic primates may think, I have a balanced view of this issue, and will readily condemn crimes and human rights abuses, no matter which side has committed them. Hamas' actions do not justify Israeli abuses, and vice versa.
I was not aware of this particular issue before, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Leumas]

... I have a balanced view of this issue, and will readily condemn crimes and human rights abuses, no matter which side has committed them...

So now do you condemn the 75 years of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and Genocide and torment and racism that the Zionist Jihadist terrorists have been wreaking on Palestinians since before there even was an Israel?

I was not aware of this particular issue before, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

But you were aware of the Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and numerous Genocides...

If not... why not? You could have read many of the FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED numerous books and reports and articles and films that are not from some

certain apoplectic primates...

Who are on the Zionist Jihadists' side frothing at the mouth with Zionist propaganda and lies and refusing to ever admit their

... crimes and human rights abuses...

Which are copiously documented and reported and filmed by numerous "fair and balanced" humanitarians who are not...

certain apoplectic [zionist jihad supporting] primates...

And who do not call the people who bring information to them

...apoplectic primates...

While refusing to read and look at the FACTS.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

So now do you condemn the 75 years of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and Genocide and torment and racism that the Zionist Jihadist terrorists have been wreaking on Palestinians since before there even was an Israel?





But you were aware of the Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and numerous Genocides...

If not... why not? You could have read many of the FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED numerous books and reports and articles and films that are not from some




Who are on the Zionist Jihadists' side frothing at the mouth with Zionist propaganda and lies and refusing to ever admit their





Which are copiously documented and reported and filmed by numerous "fair and balanced" humanitarians who are not...





And who do not call the people who bring information to them





While refusing to read and look at the FACTS.

It is a truly fascinating style of posting, isn't it?

 

[Ziggurat]

I think it is the Jews who are creating an atmosphere of anger against Jews, because of the revenge they are presently inflicting on Palestinians. It is excessive.

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

 

[lobosrul5]

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

And it might, in the long run, save lives. Get it over with. End the terrorism and then there is no need to hit the Hamas guys hiding out in a hospital every so often.

 

[Leumas]

And it might, in the long run, save lives. Get it over with. End the terrorism and then there is no need to hit the Hamas guys hiding out in a hospital every so often.

The Nazis said the same about their Final Solution too...

[imgw=150]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Adolf_Eichmann%2C_1942.jpg[/imgw]​

 

[webfusion]

OK, we're getting ready for an exchange of hostages/prisoners.

Women and minors.

The deal is not really linked to a true ceasefire (although everyone is using that word).
It's more like a 'break' in IDF combat actions for a few days, so that Hamas can arrange the transfer.

Personally, I don't feel the break will be honored by Hamas.

And Israel will be left without the remains of Oren Shaul and Hadar Goldin.
Interestingly, the vast collection of international media has not mentioned their names, not once.

 

[Nessie]

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

Hamas have been destroyed, Gaza laid waste in the process. Victory!

Then what?

The winner gets a wasteland, a lot of resentment and an uncertain future. Victory?

 

[lobosrul5]

The Nazis said the same about their Final Solution too...

[imgw=150]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Adolf_Eichmann%2C_1942.jpg[/imgw]​

Do you just go about your day trying to figure out ways to equate Jews fighting a war against terrorists and the Holocaust? Maybe get a job or go outside or something.

 

[webfusion]

Nessie, where did you get the idea that in a war, the lands which are controlled by enemy forces shouldn't be laid waste to?

Meanwhile, some details of the 96-hour break are emerging --- Those Palestinians who fled northern Gaza for the south during the last weeks of fighting would not be allowed to return in that northerly direction during the pause, given that the IDF is expected to resume its military campaign once the brief stand-down period is concluded.
The IDF, the Mossad, and the Shin Bet are in favor of the broad outline of the deal.

We don't know today what a victory will look like, yet.
Everyone and their brother has their views of what's next.

 

[Leumas]

Do you just go about your day trying to figure out ways to equate Jews fighting a war against terrorists and the Holocaust?

Every psychopath Nazi thought they were totally justified to do their crimes because of their self-righteous supremacist Nationalism and anyone who dared struggle against their occupation forces was an inhuman animal and savage saboteur who needed to be "mowed down".


When self-righteous psychopathic Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihadist Nationalists do and think the same way... then they are the very equivalent of Nazis.

[imgw=350]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5128265558fe95a188.jpg[/imgw]​

...fighting a war...

Committing genocide against people the Zionists Jihadists are occupying and confining in Concentration Camps is a crime against humanity and psychopathic insanity just like the NAZIs did.

Crimes against Humanity as a Sippenhaftung is what the NAZIs used to do and when European Settler Colonialists do it as Zionist Jihadists... it is still a crime against humanity.

European Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists doing crimes against humanity and calling it The Final Solution for the problem of having to repeatedly "Mow The Lawn" is as an equal crime as when the NAZIs did the same.

Self-righteous supremacist racist NATIONALIST ideology is NAZI whether the Nazis do it or the Zionist Jihadists.

.... Maybe get a job or go outside or something.

It would behoove you to follow your own advice... also stop calling GENOCIDE a "war".

 

[Leumas]

... in a war...

The GENOCIDE that the European Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihadists are wreaking upon the Palestinians is not a war... it a crime against humanity... and against decency and morality and is a self-righteous supremacist Nationalist racist Ethnic Cleanisng.

Not a war by even the minimum of sane or moral or decent or humanitarian standards.

You repeatedly and incessantly choosing the "Alternative Facts" of calling it a war... will never warp reality and morality and decency and reason to make it a war.

[imgw=250]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_51282655a56ddc8078.jpg[/imgw]​

 

[Leumas]

Hamas have been destroyed, Gaza laid waste in the process. Victory!

Then what?

The winner gets a wasteland, a lot of resentment and an uncertain future. Victory?

It worked for the British and the French and Dutch on 4 continents... The Zionist Jihadists are Europeans after all and have learned from the best examples of how to be ruthless self-righteous supremacist Settler Colonialists after a good Ethnic Cleansing of the irksome autochthonous peoples of their colonies.

 

[Nessie]

Nessie, where did you get the idea that in a war, the lands which are controlled by enemy forces shouldn't be laid waste to?

Meanwhile, some details of the 96-hour break are emerging --- Those Palestinians who fled northern Gaza for the south during the last weeks of fighting would not be allowed to return in that northerly direction during the pause, given that the IDF is expected to resume its military campaign once the brief stand-down period is concluded.
The IDF, the Mossad, and the Shin Bet are in favor of the broad outline of the deal.

We don't know today what a victory will look like, yet.
Everyone and their brother has their views of what's next.

Hamas destroyed, Gaza a wasteland. Then what?

 

[Dr.Sid]

Hamas destroyed, Gaza a wasteland. Then what?

No more rockets every night ? Sounds nice.

 

[Leumas]

No more rockets every night ? Sounds nice.

I am very sure that the NAZI occupation forces felt the same about the resistances against their occupation too.

[imgw=350]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_51282655d048fd204f.jpg[/imgw]​