Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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Vixen said:
The usual press release to all news outlets.
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They have made an official announcement on their own official website.

Why do you have to wait for the BBC to give you a second hand report of it?
 
Vixen said:
It is not authored; i.e., it is simply a potted time line summary based on what was already released in the one and only press statement on that particular matter.


You: happy with potted bios. Me: I am interested in the finer detail of what the Fire Report will have to say so I will wait until the investigation is concluded and the report is out.
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:rolleyes:
Bollocks. You're spew conspiratorial lies again.
 
Vixen said:
The usual press release to all news outlets.
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How do you know that such a press release wasn't sent out, but wasn't reported because it wasn't news? Are you on the mailing list for press releases from the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service?

The information was certainly disseminated on the official website, which carries more weight than a second-hand publication of a press report.
 
Vixen said:
As I said before, it is not a news website. It is very obvious to me that whoever wrote that was summarising what Hopkinson said. I can't see that the BBC, ITV, Telegraph, Times or Independent have issued any further update than the one Hopkinson gave. When a news update is issued by the police or the Fire Brigade, it would be as a press release to all relevant news agencies, not just the one information webpage. Show me where the BBC has reported this supposed update. I challenge you.
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Why should the BBC have an article saying that the assessment it was a diesel vehicle has gone from "pending verification"[1] to "confirmed"? It's not much of a change.

Nor does every change like that generate a press release as far as I know. There's certainly no requirement they do so. To be honest, this isn't a particularly interesting or important story. It's a bitch for those who had cars in the structure and it's gained some odd attention from some who doubt the official story so far, but it's not something that most folk are paying attention to.

I'm sure I wouldn't have learned of the collapse at all were it not for this thread. Of course, those in the UK are a lot more likely to know about it, but this notion that national news organizations would publish articles saying that the vehicle type has moved from "very probable" to "confirmed" is just silly.

[1] Probably not his exact words, despite my use of quotation marks.
 
Vixen said:
As I said before, it is not a news website.
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Correct. Instead, it's a primary source.

It is very obvious to me that whoever wrote that was summarising what Hopkinson said.
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It literally doesn't matter what you want to read into the statement. It's primary source that disputes your claim.

Show me where the BBC has reported this supposed update. I challenge you.
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A primary source doesn't need repetition in a secondary source with editorial discretion in order to achieve authority. The fire department is the authority. Their web site is the means of publication. The BBC is irrelevant.
 
phiwum said:
Why should the BBC have an article saying that the assessment it was a diesel vehicle has gone from "pending verification"[1] to "confirmed"? It's not much of a change.

Nor does every change like that generate a press release as far as I know. There's certainly no requirement they do so. To be honest, this isn't a particularly interesting or important story. It's a bitch for those who had cars in the structure and it's gained some odd attention from some who doubt the official story so far, but it's not something that most folk are paying attention to.

I'm sure I wouldn't have learned of the collapse at all were it not for this thread. Of course, those in the UK are a lot more likely to know about it, but this notion that national news organizations would publish articles saying that the vehicle type has moved from "very probable" to "confirmed" is just silly.

[1] Probably not his exact words, despite my use of quotation marks.
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Citation please, of the BBC article you refer to.


I agree the argument is silly but I disagree that the press would not have bothered to report an update saying the vehicle had now been examined and its status confirmed.
 
JayUtah said:
Correct. Instead, it's a primary source.



It literally doesn't matter what you want to read into the statement. It's primary source that disputes your claim.



A primary source doesn't need repetition in a secondary source with editorial discretion in order to achieve authority. The fire department is the authority. Their web site is the means of publication. The BBC is irrelevant.
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Quoted to give a second chance at comprehension.
 
Before we go on to the next part of my exercise in 'trusting your own eyes', let's try this.


Look at the following pictures in turn and without making any value judgements or conclusions, make an impartial descriptive and objective observation on what you see in each. Describe:

  • the colour of the flames in detail
  • the colour of the smoke emanating from the flames.
  • the location of the flames in relation to the car.
  • The direction of the flames.


florida by Username Vixen, on Flickr

penrose nsw by Username Vixen, on Flickr

ev tesla fire by Username Vixen, on Flickr

front by Username Vixen, on Flickr
 
Vixen said:
Here's Reuters, BBC and ITV. You'll find all of the papers and news outlets say the same thing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-luton-fire-cause-idINS8N38X0IN/

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-11/fire-service-chief-cause-of-luton-airport-car-park-fire

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073446

You do know how the news works, I take it?
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So lots of secondary sources.

Why not read the primary source?

It says on the official website of the fire service that it was a diesel car that started the fire.

Why would you rely on the press rather than the people that actually fought the fire?
 
Vixen said:
Citation please, of the BBC article you refer to.


I agree the argument is silly but I disagree that the press would not have bothered to report an update saying the vehicle had now been examined and its status confirmed.
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It doesn't matter what the press report when the fire service have put tout an official statement on their official website that says it was a diesel car that started the fire.
 
Vixen said:
Citation please, of the BBC article you refer to.
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I did not refer to any BBC article. You sure do get easily confused.

I agree the argument is silly but I disagree that the press would not have bothered to report an update saying the vehicle had now been examined and its status confirmed.
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Ah, so let's see if I understand your argument.

  • All important developments will be announced via press release and reported by the press.
  • Were the assessment of the vehicle as a diesel ICE to move from "pending final investigation" to "confirmed", this would be an important development.
  • There has been no report of the confirmation in the press.
  • Hence, the assessment is still not confirmed.
  • Hence, the announcement that it has been confirmed on the website must be in error.
Is this roughly your argument?
 
Vixen said:
Before we go on to the next part of my exercise in 'trusting your own eyes', let's try this.


Look at the following pictures in turn and without making any value judgements or conclusions, make an impartial descriptive and objective observation on what you see in each. Describe:

  • the colour of the flames in detail
  • the colour of the smoke emanating from the flames.
  • the location of the flames in relation to the car.
  • The direction of the flames.


[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53342735044_8ca04869b0.jpg[/qimg]florida by Username Vixen, on Flickr

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53342412936_e172386c88.jpg[/qimg]penrose nsw by Username Vixen, on Flickr

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53342736374_7c2918c76d.jpg[/qimg]ev tesla fire by Username Vixen, on Flickr

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53314085486_0165dfd981.jpg[/qimg]front by Username Vixen, on Flickr
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Sensor overloaded by the brightness.

It doesn't matter anyway, the fire service have confirmed that it was a diesel car that started the fire.
 
Vixen said:
Here's Reuters, BBC and ITV. You'll find all of the papers and news outlets say the same thing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-luton-fire-cause-idINS8N38X0IN/

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-11/fire-service-chief-cause-of-luton-airport-car-park-fire

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073446

You do know how the news works, I take it?
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Yes. None of those is a link to a press release, they are all news sources reporting what someone has said.

Can you provide a link to Hopkinson's press release, please?
 
OK, given the issues Vixen has previously seemed to have with memory, I suppose I'd better provide a reminder of how we got here:
Vixen said:
...citing Hopkinson's press release.
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Mojo said:
Can you provide a link to Hopkinson's press release, please?
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Vixen said:
Here's Reuters, BBC and ITV. You'll find all of the papers and news outlets say the same thing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-luton-fire-cause-idINS8N38X0IN/

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-11/fire-service-chief-cause-of-luton-airport-car-park-fire

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073446

You do know how the news works, I take it?
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Mojo said:
Yes. None of those is a link to a press release, they are all news sources reporting what someone has said.

Can you provide a link to Hopkinson's press release, please?
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Link, please?
 
We can add "What is a press release" and "What are quoted words from a news conference given to journalists" to the gigantically long list of things that Vixen does not understand.


Meanwhile, back to the embarrassing Gish Gallop........
 
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