General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Leumas]

Christmas celebrations cancelled.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/birthplace-jesus-dismantling-christmas-decorations-183429612.html

They have no tourists anyway, as their big seasonal surge of visitors is MIA.

Old City souk/market in E.Jerusalem? Ghost town.

Over 80% of the westbank population thinks the murderous attack on 10-7 was a good idea.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-773791

Maybe if the Zionist Jihadists stopped doing this... which they have been doing for decades...

IDF soldiers filmed themselves as they abused seven West Bank laborers who were caught as they attempted to enter Israel without a permit, in an area south of the South Hebron hills.

The footage shows the Palestinian men stripped naked or half-naked, blindfolded and handcuffed, and screaming in pain. One of them is being dragged on the ground.

A screenshot from the video shows a soldier stepping with his boot on the head of one of the Palestinians, while another is pointing a weapon at him.

In another scene of violence caught on camera, a soldier kicks a blindfolded Palestinian man in the stomach, then spits on him and insults him in Arabic.

In one instance, a religious Jewish reserve soldier hugs a blindfolded, handcuffed Palestinian on the shoulders, and dances with him in circles while he plays religious music on his phone. He asks him, “Why don’t you dance” as the blindfolded man loses his balance....

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Genocide

Yup. So, as I said, not genocide.
Unless you have any actual evidence that fits the definition you posted here, that is. Do you?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

They already know because I already gave it in this post and this post and this post and showed the intent of doing it in this post and this post and linked to the history of it being done over and over in this post and in this post... and the current actual occurrence of it in this post and this post...

But of course they will never read any of it because then they might have to admit the Zionists' lies and crimes.


ETA: not to mention this post too.

I've responded to several of those posts. Indeed, your own links include quotes from me. Clearly, I have read them.
Stop lying, Leumas.

 

[Nessie]

Both sides exaggerate the actions of the others and diminish and excuse their own actions. The bottom line is that violent men on both sides think violence is the answer and they are stupid and wrong. It is only when they can accept that, that change will be enabled.

 

[Roboramma]

Both sides exaggerate the actions of the others and diminish and excuse their own actions. The bottom line is that violent men on both sides think violence is the answer and they are stupid and wrong. It is only when they can accept that, that change will be enabled.

Pacifism is stupid and wrong. We should try peace when we can, but violence is sometimes necessary.

 

[webfusion]

Pacifism is stupid and wrong. We should try peace when we can, but violence is sometimes necessary.

Hamas has an ideology that violence against Israel is appropriate, in all cases.

Why is there a demand for ceasefire? Not because the Hamas wishes to stand down, and pursue a peaceful direction. The ceasefire is just so they can regroup, reform their communications network & consolidate weaponry, and prepare for another 10-7.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hilation-Israel-repeat-attacks-October-7.html Ghazi Hamad recently declared that a repeat ("again and again") of 10-7 is their goal, their fervent wish, their RAISON D'ÊTRE.

 

[Leumas]

Pacifism is stupid and wrong. We should try peace when we can, but violence is sometimes necessary.

Especially when it is a JIHAD in the name of a celestial ethnic cleansing slave mongering voodoo rituals prescribing sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp named YHWH a.k.a. Allah and his ill begotten Zombified human sacrificed son Jesus.... huh????

[imgw=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5128265584bbbdd900.png[/imgw]​

 

[Leumas]

Hamas has an ideology that violence against Israel is appropriate, in all cases.

So do the Zionists have the same ideology long before there was a Hamas... against the Palestinians.

Here is one of the Zionist Jihadists founding fathers of Israel telling how the land he snatched out of its autochthonous natives and ethnically cleansed with the violence of the gun... is going to be his homeland despite being a wanted European terrorist.

Notice the map and the rifle over it... symbolizing the violence that was and is Israel and Zionism

[imgw=250]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Menachem_Begin_p%C5%99i_projevu_v_srpnu_1948.jpg/440px-Menachem_Begin_p%C5%99i_projevu_v_srpnu_1948.jpg[/imgw]​

And here is his wanted poster along with the other Zionist Jihadists

[imgw=400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/AJI_view_846.TIF/lossy-page1-1665px-AJI_view_846.TIF.jpg[/imgw]​

 

[theprestige]

the history of it being done over and over

You can't do genocide over and over.

 

[Stout]

Both sides exaggerate the actions of the others and diminish and excuse their own actions. The bottom line is that violent men on both sides think violence is the answer and they are stupid and wrong. It is only when they can accept that, that change will be enabled.

It's not just men. Here in Canada we have...Natalie Knight describing the 10/7 attacks as "amazing, brilliant." We also have Samantha Pearson the (now ex) director of the Sexual Assault Centre at The University of Alberta, Edmonton, refusing to believe all women and questioning whether the reported rapes and sexual assaults on 10/7 actually happened. We also have an apparent member of the religion of peace, Sahar Shehadeh, who posted a video saying "I support Hamas" and added "I would love it if they would do it again and again and again and again and again".

So...not just men.

 

[Leumas]

You can't do genocide over and over.

Yes you can... European Christians did it to the European Jews... and European Christians did it to the Australian aborigines and American Natives and Africans and Asians... over and over and over over along the annals and centuries of rapine and pillaging and plundering and racism and self-righteous supremacy and religious fanaticism and greed and pure evil.

Go read the definition of genocide... you clearly have not understood it if you have.

Hint: genocide != extermination

 

[Leumas]

It's not just men.....So...not just men.

Yes... much like the Israeli women and girls in this video...

 

[Planigale]

It's not just men. Here in Canada we have...Natalie Knight describing the 10/7 attacks as "amazing, brilliant." We also have Samantha Pearson the (now ex) director of the Sexual Assault Centre at The University of Alberta, Edmonton, refusing to believe all women and questioning whether the reported rapes and sexual assaults on 10/7 actually happened. We also have an apparent member of the religion of peace, Sahar Shehadeh, who posted a video saying "I support Hamas" and added "I would love it if they would do it again and again and again and again and again".

So...not just men.

Killing people is wrong. Rape is wrong. Sexual assault is wrong. Sexual assault is routinely practiced by Shin Bet when interrogating female detainees as part of the stress process (which also involves a variety of other physical stresses).

We do not know exactly what happened on 07/10, we know that the numbers killed were fewer than Israel first reported, we know the beheading of forty children as first reported was untrue. We know some deaths of Israelis were 'collateral damage' in the fight against the terrorists. We also know that groups other than Hamas entered Israel through the breaches made. Almost certainly some crimes were committed by groups other than Hamas.

To be clear even if actual members of Hamas did not commit certain crimes Hamas is morally and legally responsible for crimes committed on that day. Even for 'colateral damage'.

Hamas committed crimes. That does not excuse Israel committing crimes, such as the routine sexual assault of female detainees and occasional rape (videoed to provide blackmail material), the extra-judicial execution of detainees, deliberate mass starvation of a civilian population, assault on protected infrastructure such as hospitals.

 

[Hercules56]

Christmas celebrations cancelled.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/birthplace-jesus-dismantling-christmas-decorations-183429612.html

They have no tourists anyway, as their big seasonal surge of visitors is MIA.

Old City souk/market in E.Jerusalem? Ghost town.

Over 80% of the westbank population thinks the murderous attack on 10-7 was a good idea.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-773791

I bet an equal percentage or even more of Israelis believe it was a good idea to shut off all power, water and food for Gaza.

 

[Leumas]

I bet an equal percentage or even more of Israelis believe it was a good idea to shut off all power, water and food for Gaza.

And a lot lot lot worse than that... watch these guys...

...but I want to play a clip and this is of the people who were coming to the pro-israeli demonstration which is actually uh people advocating the absolute genocide of the Palestinian people uh these are Americans presumably American Young American Jewish people uh and again this is all over the Internet it's on the media but the the mainstream media and all of these politicians they don't have a word about it it's sort of like oh of course...

Natural let's let's hear this clip

[ __ ] Palestine Palestine to my dick what do you think the response should be from Netanyahu and the military to God kill all Palestinians all of them no one left from The River To The Sea Palestine will be deceased and Israel need to do like this you see now Gaza like this Gaza need to do like this oh oh like this but all this Jewish two options what do you what do you think the response should be to Gaza we got to wipe them off the map [ ___ ] I'm talking about every [ __ ] flatten them like a parking lot yeah flatten them out once and for get that nothing else you can do they they prove to they prove to us that there's nothing else you can do we tried and we tried everything it doesn't work we have to wipe them flat off the [ __ ] map like like a [ __ ] parking lot yeah I'm not stopping tell Arabs are wiped out I think I think now it's the time that we need to raze Gaza there is people inside our people inside that kidnapped and now we need to kill all of them and free Israel all all of their belief is killing Jewish and killing and murder our people flatten flatten [Applause] Gaza that will be the last war in Gaza this will be yes it should [Music] [Applause] be okay so Mo flatten Gaza kill them kill all the Arabs
uh these these These are genocidal Pro genocidal comments again no big deal it's kind of like if Israeli supporters talk about killing the Arab and Palestinian people who are and basically had all of their land stolen living in this open air prison in Gaza not a peep out of the so-called politicians I mean not a peep out of the politicians who are so alarmed that people have gone into the streets in support of Palestine.

@minutes 00:06:00 onwards...

 

[webfusion]

I bet an equal percentage or even more of Israelis believe it was a good idea to shut off all power, water and food for Gaza.

It's still shut off. This is an ongoing hot war. Gaza is undergoing a tectonic shifting in everything. The status-quo is broken. The days of 'mowing the lawn' are over. The Gazans will have to rethink how they'll survive in 2024 and beyond, and how to control their affairs.
They want Electric? Pay for it.
Fuel? Ain't free.
Water? Mekorot Water Company wants cash-in-hand.
Food? Maybe UNRWA can stop being a part of the problem and try to form resolutions for the refugees.
Refugees in Jordan? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.
Refugees in Lebanon? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.
Refugees in Syria? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work
Refugees in London? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.
Refugees in Lisbon? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.
Refugees in Toronto? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.
Refugees in Westbank? Take 'em into the Gaza & N.Sinai put 'em to work.

You get the idea? FreePalestine means Gaza& N.Sinai first. Israel will make sure that 5-6 millions of these worldwide wanderers have a place that's their homeland in a mini-Nation/State on this wartorn coastal salient of Historical Palestine.
Start there. Get back to us in 20 years. Maybe we'll listen to other ideas. Maybe not.

 

[Leumas]

It's still shut off. This is an ongoing hot war. ...

It is not a WAR... it is a Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihadists' occupation force clobbering and collectively punishing (Sippenhaftung ) the people it has been occupying and oppressing and tormenting and humiliating and ethnically cleansing for 75 years.

[imgw=350]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_51282655a56ddc8078.jpg[/imgw]​

 

[The Great Zaganza]

but the IDF doesn't mean to ...

 

[Stout]

Killing people is wrong. Rape is wrong. Sexual assault is wrong. Sexual assault is routinely practiced by Shin Bet when interrogating female detainees as part of the stress process (which also involves a variety of other physical stresses).

We do not know exactly what happened on 07/10, we know that the numbers killed were fewer than Israel first reported, we know the beheading of forty children as first reported was untrue. We know some deaths of Israelis were 'collateral damage' in the fight against the terrorists. We also know that groups other than Hamas entered Israel through the breaches made. Almost certainly some crimes were committed by groups other than Hamas.

To be clear even if actual members of Hamas did not commit certain crimes Hamas is morally and legally responsible for crimes committed on that day. Even for 'colateral damage'.

Hamas committed crimes. That does not excuse Israel committing crimes, such as the routine sexual assault of female detainees and occasional rape (videoed to provide blackmail material), the extra-judicial execution of detainees, deliberate mass starvation of a civilian population, assault on protected infrastructure such as hospitals.

Agreed, Israelis can be total dicks but what I'm talking about here is western support for Hamas's attack on 10/7 and the question it raises about how much of this supposed support "for the innocent Palestinians" is actually support for Hamas and their terror attack on unarmed civilians.

The story of what's going on with the al-Shifa hospital is still unfolding. Remember, the White House confirmed that Hamas was operating under it and we'll just have to wait and see what comes of the investigation. Maybe they'll find a bunker or maybe it'll be debunked like the 40 beheaded babies and the Israeli air strike on the al-Ahli Hospital with the 500 dead.

 

[webfusion]

Leumas, I am not going to engage with you.
The IDF is doing exactly the things which will result in Hamas being unable to rule Gaza anymore.
From our perspective, it's a difficult and costly war with our soldiers dying.
The enemy dying? So far, that pursuit has gone well. (according to Benny Gantz, who knows a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to fighting a hot war).

By the way, just because one side has inferior weaponry to deploy or numerical troop disadvantages doesn't mean a war cannot be fought. IIRC, many wars have been fought with one side badly outnumbered and unable to field the types of armaments their enemy has.