dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
All sings are pointing to an early Israeli incursion into Gaza.
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Ed General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 3
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I eagerly await TG and TGZ making their arguments for which middle eastern interests we should support against Israel. Egypt? Jordan? Iran? Make your claim, Zaganza. Make your equivocation, Turkey.
lobosrul5
Philosopher
That brings me to a major misunderstanding of Israel and its history. Had Israel lost the war in 1948 there woudn't be a free Palestine, for the Palestinians. The Arab League would've carved it up amongst themselves.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
It's not that simple. Israel has public sympathy now. That's great opportunity. That can be lost in one night. Probably already was. That will solve nothing, people will die, Muslims will unite, gain sympathy, possibly money .. that's not a courage, that's just stupid.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Hell, they would have fought a war over who got the spoils.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
You just don't want Israel to do anything. which would be a victory for HAMAS.Right.
It's called "Parlysis through Analysis" something intellecuals..and the wannabes..are very prone to.
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The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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ah, the old, "when did you stop beating your wife?" question.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
No, I just don't want Israel to commit obvious war crimes. Which, mind you, includes attacks in civilian infrastructure and denying basic needs, like water. And of course, indiscriminate bombing. Which seems to be the case, based on videos of whole streets being leveled. With another reported escalation this night.
That won't help, it will just increase Hamas influence, will get them more funding, and will further weaken support in the West.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
I've seen a couple excerpts, but not the whole thing. The excerpts make me think that was pretty much just repeating the stances already made explicit elsewhere, which I had fully agreed with. Was there anything in it that was out of line with the joint statement released before, though, that makes this question particularly meaningful?
Separately, your continued efforts to create conflict where there's no need or good reason for it are less than helpful.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
I don't normally comment on this topic much, but imagine if you were unfortunate enough to be born in Gaza. What is your future? Are you ever going to be allowed to move anywhere else? The median age there is 18 years old. Most people who live there do so for this very reason. They were born there and have no other option. They have no country. No voice in how they are governed. No other country will accept them. The last time there was even an election they were either too young to vote or not even born yet. The unemployment rate is almost 50%. If you have no hope for a better life, maybe dying in battle against your oppressor doesn't seem like a bad option.
In case people think that this factoid is a reflection of high death rates of Palestinians, it has everything to do with massive birth rates. Somebody earlier in this thread pointed out the average age is not much different from the US.
I would think it would have gone to Jordan. They had the most effective military, and the population is ethnically the same as in Palestine.
Yes.
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
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Absolutely. Treat a group of people badly and those in that group who inclined to violence will fight back.
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
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When Sinn Fein distanced itself from the IRA and became a political organisation that would condemn violence (and by its actions helping to reduce the level of violence in NI), it was able to enter negotiations with the UK government that was under international pressure, especially from the USA, to make the negotiations work.
Hamas have chosen the route of; violence will work, despite all the evidence it will not. Unless they are replaced by or become a political only organisation that condemns violence, they are doomed to fail and cause many deaths.
Hamas have chosen the route of; violence will work, despite all the evidence it will not. Unless they are replaced by or become a political only organisation that condemns violence, they are doomed to fail and cause many deaths.
I wonder if they believe violence will work or whether they believe non violence is anathama to their ethos whether it will work or not.
The Palestinian delegation visited Russia on the 14th September. The Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh told the Russian press agency Novosti that they had discussed future cooperation with the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, and had reached important decisions, in particular, in relation to the situation in the Middle East.
Then this attack on the day of Putin’s birthday.
Coincidence? Maybe.
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Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
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Some people are prone to being violent and to using violence to try to get what they want. When people like that get power, they drag others along with them. I think for them, it is an individual power play.
What was remarkable in Northern Ireland was that a sizeable group of those in power decided that violence was not the answer. There is still violence in NI, but it is more organised criminals acting in the guise of political activism.
Hamas is dominated by the men of violence, who, for their own desire for power and driven by hate, have convinced themselves, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that violence is the answer. You are right, that even if they do know they are on a hiding to nothing, they will still try to use violence and convince themselves they are heroes.
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