Cont: Transwomen are not women - part 13

[JoeMorgue]

Varys: I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting.
Tyrion: I'm entirely sure, you're entirely sure, what I'm suggesting.

 

[Trausti]

Hmm, well I hope that doesn't land us in a situation where youths experiencing gender dysphoria get the optimal care in some countries, and in other countries their well-being is sacrificed to the culture wars. That would be a shame.

Any care that spares young people sterilization and gential mutilation would be optimal.

 

[p0lka]

You know how Parents would say you weren't allowed to pierce your ears until you were an adult?
Or get tattoos until you were an adult?

Well, you aren't allowed to transition until you are an adult either.

Sticking with that solves so many problems.

 

[p0lka]

Websites ******** the bed, dupe post.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Interesting example of what I'm talking about earlier. This UK tabloid is written very sympathetically to the anti-trans parents of late teen trans children, but it demonstrates exactly how parents digging in their heels to be vicious transphobes accomplish little more than making sure they aren't part of their soon to be adult children's lives.

The girls’ mothers were at a loss as to what they should do, but came to the same conclusion — that safeguarding was called for to protect their daughters from rushing into taking powerful hormones and making irreversible physical changes they might later regret.

Tragically, both women have now effectively lost contact with their beloved daughters.

They have also been cut out of all medical discussions pertaining to their children — who, if not already referred to adult gender services, soon will be.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24097207/high-court-action-gender-clinics-neurodiverse-teenagers/

 

[Emily's Cat]

No comment on the suicidality risk, but I think a far more likely scenario is "I can make my child's life hell, they'll still transition eventually, and they'll resent me for the rest of my life, or I can support them now and maintain a good relationship with them".

You're missing a scenario.

"I can affirm my child's beliefs and support them through blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries so that they love me right now, but then they'll hate me when they hit their mid-twenties and realize they were wrong in their beliefs and they resent that I let them damage their bodies and sterilize themselves, and I failed in my duty as a parent to make decisions for their long-term health and wellbeing."

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You're missing a scenario.

"I can affirm my child's beliefs and support them through blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries so that they love me right now, but then they'll hate me when they hit their mid-twenties and realize they were wrong in their beliefs and they resent that I let them damage their bodies and sterilize themselves, and I failed in my duty as a parent to make decisions for their long-term health and wellbeing."

Lol cope. Sure, they'll come back into their lives aaaaaaaaaaaannnny minute now and tell them how right there were all along.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You know how Parents would say you weren't allowed to pierce your ears until you were an adult?
Or get tattoos until you were an adult?

Well, you aren't allowed to transition until you are an adult either.

Sticking with that solves so many problems.

Remember that when Jr. is putting you into a 3rd rate retirement home and never visits.

 

[Trausti]

Interesting example of what I'm talking about earlier. This UK tabloid is written very sympathetically to the anti-trans parents of late teen trans children, but it demonstrates exactly how parents digging in their heels to be vicious transphobes accomplish little more than making sure they aren't part of their soon to be adult children's lives.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24097207/high-court-action-gender-clinics-neurodiverse-teenagers/

Separating people from their loved ones is what cults do. A feature not a bug.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The transphobic parents that respond by throwing a tantrum and acting like maniacs likely think they're acting in their child's best interests or will achieve some other good outcome, but usually all they accomplish is making their children deeply resent them and, at best, delaying their transition (medical or social) until they are free from their parent's influence in adulthood.

What percent of parents who are concerned about the long term impacts on their children do you imagine are throwing tantrums?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I still say suicide is a (somewhat) red herring.

It doesn't "prove" anything either way.

If X is wrong it's wrong and if X is right it's right. "Believe X or I'll kill myself and you don't want me to kill myself do you?" (or 3rd person versions of it) are emotional manipulation, not an argument.

Yep

 

[Emily's Cat]

Pointing out that people with serious mental health disorders may kill themselves (or have other negative outcomes) if they don't get proper treatment for those disorders is not emotional manipulation.

Finally, some progress!

If we accept that gender dysphoria is a serious mental health disorder, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the first approach should be to treat the mental health disorder? Wouldn't surgery and pharmaceutical intervention be a last resort approach?

To my knowledge, there is no other current mental health disorder where the first treatment path is drugs and surgeries that cause bodily harm and produce sterility.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Ok, but let's not pretend that the current gallop by reactionaries to pass anti-trans laws are motivated by anything but outright animus.

Would you just stop making assumptions of malice for anyone who doesn't carry the same torch as you? FFS. Most of them are not motivated by animus, that's your own imagineered motivation. Most of them are motivated by CHILDREN BEING PERMANENTLY HARMED AND STERILIZED WHEN THERE'S INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE THAT LOPPING OFF HEALTH BODY TISSUE AND GIVING KIDS DRUGS THAT DESTROY THEIR FUTILITY ACTUALLY RESULTS IN LONG TERM BENEFITS FOR THE KID, OR THAT THE KID IS EVEN ACTUALLY HAPPIER ABOUT IT FOR MORE THAN A SHORT SPAN OF TIME.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm discussing the trans issue in the context that actually exists, not the one you might prefer existed.

No you're not. You're discussing it in the context that lets you skewer a strawman and feel righteous about impugning and insulting anyone that disagrees with you. You're discussing it in the imagineered context that lets you wallow in your own hatred.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Would you just stop making assumptions of malice for anyone who doesn't carry the same torch as you? FFS. Most of them are not motivated by animus, that's your own imagineered motivation. Most of them are motivated by CHILDREN BEING PERMANENTLY HARMED AND STERILIZED WHEN THERE'S INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE THAT LOPPING OFF HEALTH BODY TISSUE AND GIVING KIDS DRUGS THAT DESTROY THEIR FUTILITY ACTUALLY RESULTS IN LONG TERM BENEFITS FOR THE KID, OR THAT THE KID IS EVEN ACTUALLY HAPPIER ABOUT IT FOR MORE THAN A SHORT SPAN OF TIME.

I can't see this so well, can you use bigger font?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Social media. Which seems to have driven up both teen suicide and gender dysphoria rates.

Social media (which is social the same way North Korea is democratic) causes mental illness.

Social media has also resulted in a massive increase in the number of self-diagnosed cases of ADHD, BPD, DID, and various other mental health and neurological conditions. It has also massively increased observable anxiety and depression.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Lol cope. Sure, they'll come back into their lives aaaaaaaaaaaannnny minute now and tell them how right there were all along.

I swear it's like you're pretending that detransitioners don't exist at all, and that none of their stories have ever been told, and that none of them have won suits and court cases against therapists that both rushed them into transition when it was an inappropriate pathway and pressured their parents to support them.

 

[theprestige]

Finally, some progress!

If we accept that gender dysphoria is a serious mental health disorder, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the first approach should be to treat the mental health disorder? Wouldn't surgery and pharmaceutical intervention be a last resort approach?

To my knowledge, there is no other current mental health disorder where the first treatment path is drugs and surgeries that cause bodily harm and produce sterility.

To my knowledge, there is no other current mental health disorder where the generally-accepted treatment is to validate the deranged thought processes characteristic of the disorder.

We don't tell people suffering from factitious disorder that the best thing for their mental health is to carry on as if they really are sick with some other condition or disease. We don't tell doctors they need to treat the factitious disease as if it were real, otherwise they might drive the patient to suicide.

We don't tell people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia that the intrusive thoughts and harmful voices are a true guide to how they should live.

We don't tell people who suffer from bipolar disorder that they need to get off their meds and lean into their manic and depressive episodes, as a truer expression of who they really are supposed to be.

 

[d4m10n]

Here's a concept I'd like enlightened centrists to have seared in their head: "You can't ignore that intense bigotry is the factor driving one side of the conversation just because you'd prefer to be having a reasonable, good faith debate".

Here's a concept I'd like enlightened liberals to keep in mind: Sorting males like Lia Thomas and Laurel Hubbard into male sports leagues and record books is not driven by bigotry, but by actual, testable, demonstrable differences between the two sexes in terms of athletic performance. Sometimes one's sex really does matter more than one's subjective sense of self. If you cannot wrap your head around this, do not claim to be driven by skepticism and a dedication to following the evidence wherever it leads.

 

[Samson]

Interesting example of what I'm talking about earlier. This UK tabloid is written very sympathetically to the anti-trans parents of late teen trans children, but it demonstrates exactly how parents digging in their heels to be vicious transphobes accomplish little more than making sure they aren't part of their soon to be adult children's lives.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24097207/high-court-action-gender-clinics-neurodiverse-teenagers/

Yes those wicked birth mothers got exactly what they deserved. Going forward, we can expect the kids to move much more quickly on this. New Zealand is funding an agency called inside out to get transitioning on the road at primary schools.