Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[Vixen]

These persons are confirmed to have been on deck 6 at the time of the accident and either remained there or went only to the nearest and safest escape option available to them without any deviation?

Not sure how you can determine the probability of survival of persons who's whereabouts, activities, and frame of mind during and after the accident are not firmly known.

"Their cabin was near the cabin a survivor was in" is barely circumstantial, if not a complete non sequitur.

Experts have analysed where the various survivors were, and in terms of demography (a man in his 40's was the most likely survivor). A surprisingly large (proportionally) number of the survivors came from decks 0 and 1. The passengers in deck 1 felt the blow the strongest (most said it felt like a collision of some sort or a grounding). They also saw water on the floor so fled for their lives. This gave them a head start over other passengers who were still asleep until the violent list. But by far the greatest number of survivors were already on the upper decks with access to the promenades where the life vests and inflatable boats were stored.

The three engineers and the watchman came up through the upper deck directly from the engine room by climbing up the wall steps leading straight up and out.

 

[zooterkin]

Experts have analysed where the various survivors were, and in terms of demography (a man in his 40's was the most likely survivor). A surprisingly large (proportionally) number of the survivors came from decks 0 and 1. The passengers in deck 1 felt the blow the strongest (most said it felt like a collision of some sort or a grounding). They also saw water on the floor so fled for their lives. This gave them a head start over other passengers who were still asleep until the violent list. But by far the greatest number of survivors were already on the upper decks with access to the promenades where the life vests and inflatable boats were stored.

The three engineers and the watchman came up through the upper deck directly from the engine room by climbing up the wall steps leading straight up and out.

And?

 

[Vixen]

I noticed they identified them by manufacturer and model. No other information is necessary in the report.



Asked and answered. In order to be sure you remember and understand the answer, please summarize in your own words for the group what I wrote the last time you referred to these people.



No, there is no problem with the JAIC. The problem is why you—who clearly know so very little about these devices, how they're made and operated, and how they're regulated—are presuming to lecture your betters.

I suspect the real reason for JAIC for not dealing with the buoys was because either they were steering well clear of it or they were out of their depth (puns apposite).

It is almost certainly the former as they kept well away from any hint of sabotage, preferring to blame the lack of communications for an hour on Finland Radio which was unfair as Finland Radio couldn't even get the location until about 01:41.

 

[JayUtah]

I suspect the real reason for JAIC for not dealing with the buoys was because either they were steering well clear of it or they were out of their depth (puns apposite).

It is almost certainly the former as they kept well away from any hint of sabotage, preferring to blame the lack of communications for an hour on Finland Radio which was unfair as Finland Radio couldn't even get the location until about 01:41.

None of this addresses my post. Please focus.

 

[Vixen]

And?

If you were on Deck 6, you only needed to step outside to find yourself next to all of the life saving equipment. In addition, the crew will have survival outfits, too.

Compare and contrast to the hundreds of families and pensioner groups all fighting to get up flights of narrow stairs. Anything over 40° slant is insurmountable unless you have good climbing skills to attempt using the rails as a climbing frame.

Do you now understand why Deck 6 was a useful deck to be on under those circumstances? First in line to the lifeboats, life vests and and inflatable rafts.

 

[GlennB]

Hi Vixen. Any thoughts on the Oprah/Harry/Meghan bilge you posted earlier?

 

[autumn1971]

I actually have a tee-shirt that perfectly encapsulates this thread.
It says, “I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.”

 

[GlennB]

I actually have a tee-shirt that perfectly encapsulates this thread.
It says, “I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.”

Nice one, but Vixen understands it all perfectly well. It's just her responses that, well, defy belief.

 

[Vixen]

Hi Vixen. Any thoughts on the Oprah/Harry/Meghan bilge you posted earlier?

It would appear rights were acquired by CBS in 2021. Up until then I believe it was only available to paying subscribers on an obscure channel. The point being made was that it is easy enough to suppress media. So the early issues of Aftonbladet are still there on paper but not online.

 

[Vixen]

Care to deal with my other request of you Vixen? You've still not reproduced the post(s) that show that I was incorrect.

I have no idea what post you are talking about. Spell it out.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Yes you do. You even PMed me.

Stop dancing around and trying to make us spoonfeed you.

 

[Vixen]

I noticed they identified them by manufacturer and model. No other information is necessary in the report.



Asked and answered. In order to be sure you remember and understand the answer, please summarize in your own words for the group what I wrote the last time you referred to these people.



No, there is no problem with the JAIC. The problem is why you—who clearly know so very little about these devices, how they're made and operated, and how they're regulated—are presuming to lecture your betters.

Do look up what a hydrostatic release unit does:

Hydrostatic release units
The Hydrostatic Release Unit (HRU) is designed and approved to automatically deploy a life raft or EPIRB in the event of a vessel sinking.

HRUs operate between 1.5 and 4 metres of water depth, to release the securing mechanism for the life raft or EPIRB.

amsa

The clue is in the word 'hydrostatic'.

In addition, free-floating automatic EPIRB's were two and six from Woolworths and thus the onwers of Estonia did not need to wait until 1999 to fit them. It is not as though any modifications were needed to the engine or restructure of the beams were needed to comply with SOLAS.

The Estonia had fitted HRU-activated free-float automatic buoys and the JAIC failed to provide any explanation for their having been switched off despite being inspected by the ship's electricians the week before. It also failed to explain the communications blockage. The Commander of the Finnish Coastguards reported a signal from Russia on a formerly Finnish Island that blocked communications that night during the relevant period. Yes, then we had to pretend we were friends with Russia and ignore this blatant hostile act but we can now come straight out, now the gloves are off with this rogue state, and name it for what it was. Although I doubt it will be declassified any time soon.

 

[Vixen]

Yes you do. You even PMed me.

Stop dancing around and trying to make us spoonfeed you.

I am not allowed to talk about that, as you know. But you can, so talk away, secure in the knowledge of no counterargument.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

No one disagrees that they were automatically released Vixen. How are you finding this difficult?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I am not allowed to talk about that, as you know. But you can, so talk away, secure in the knowledge of no counterargument.

Yes you are.

Of course you are. Stop pretending that you're being silenced.

 

[GlennB]

It would appear rights were acquired by CBS in 2021. Up until then I believe it was only available to paying subscribers on an obscure channel.

Oh dear. The deal was struck in February then ...

"Produced by Winfrey's Harpo Productions, the taping took place outdoors in Santa Barbara County, California, at the home of an unnamed friend of Winfrey's. The special premiered on March 7, 2021, on CBS, and aired the following day on ITV in the United Kingdom." wiki

My bolding. You're making **** up on the fly yet again, aren't you.

 

[Vixen]

No one disagrees that they were automatically released Vixen. How are you finding this difficult?

Oh dear.

 

[Vixen]

Oh dear. The deal was struck in February then ...

"Produced by Winfrey's Harpo Productions, the taping took place outdoors in Santa Barbara County, California, at the home of an unnamed friend of Winfrey's. The special premiered on March 7, 2021, on CBS, and aired the following day on ITV in the United Kingdom." wiki

My bolding. You're making **** up on the fly yet again, aren't you.

As bolded by yourself: The special premiered on March 7, 2021.

These are the facts from New York Times:

Social-media discussion of the show has continued since the credits rolled, leaving many people who missed it wondering where they could stream it. For the next 30 days, the special will be available on CBS.com and the CBS app. But after that, it will not have a home on any streaming platform.

That’s because, from the start of negotiations, Ms. Winfrey’s company, Harpo Productions, the owner of the program, envisioned the special as something suited to a big broadcast network, three people with knowledge of the deal said. Harpo did not even attempt to sell the streaming rights to Netflix or Paramount+, the streaming platform owned by CBS’s parent company, ViacomCBS, the people said.

Please concentrate on the point being made.

 

[Andy_Ross]

My beacon is a Cobham Sailor 4065

It cost me £765 last year, the enclosure was extra, far from 'teo and six'

It's a small 'recreational' unit.

Commercial ship models cost more than 'two and six' and a lot more than mine due to commercial certification, but they are tougher with longer life.

In the 1990s they cost considerably more, recreational sailors rarely had them unless they were considering serious long distance blue water voyages because of the cost.

No commercial shipping line is going to throw away expensive equipment before it's expired.

 

[GlennB]

As bolded by yourself: The special premiered on March 7, 2021.

'The special' was the program. There was no non-special version of it.