Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

[Brainster]

They've deleted those tweets. But you can find an archive here.

I imagine they were getting ratio'ed by people pointing out that changing sex (naturally) is not the same thing as changing gender (by artificial means or declaration). I also wonder why the British Library thought this was important; the British Aquarium would at least be on topic.

 

[d4m10n]

I also wonder why the British Library thought this was important; the British Aquarium would at least be on topic.

I saw some of the pushback, it wasn't particularly articulate. Reminds me of the Bud Light debacle, in that people are just generally riled up and don't ask themselves whether something is actually wrong or if they are merely offended.

 

[Graham2001]

I found this posting on Jason Colavito's blog, the main subject of the blog is UFO nonsense, but the opening half-sentence shows just how successful the Trans-lobby has been...

On the same day that butt-probed alien abductee Whitley Strieber waded into the right-wing anti-trans campaign by opining that a woman is only “a person with 2 X chromosomes” and that “what people are and what we feel like are two different things,”

https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/...as-talks-benefits-of-alien-threat-to-humanity

 

[smartcooky]

Equating transgender people to "foxes dressing up as chickens" is as ridiculous as it is nasty. Unsurprisingly.

...aaaand there goes another one, right over your head... as usual!

 

[LondonJohn]

...aaaand there goes another one, right over your head... as usual!

Well then, perhaps you'd be so kind as to explain to me just how and why my response indicates that this has gone "right over my head". Many thanks in advance, smartcooky.

 

[LondonJohn]

And once again you have completely missed the point. I'm not equating transgender people to foxes. I'm analogizing MALES as foxes.

Yes, yes. Because you believe that there's really no such thing as trans women, don't you? That's why you use the "anti-trans-approved" vocabulary "trans identifying males", isn't it? And it's why you mock transgender identity as "LARPing" and so forth, and accuse trans people of being mentally ill. Isn't it.

 

[Beerina]

I propose a new name for people with a biological penis. This is necessarily fuzzy around the edges due to anomalous genitalia and other disorders.

"Dorks"

 

[Blank]

Analogy.. (snipped for brevity)

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

 

[Mashuna]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

All raccoons are chickens?

 

[Lplus]

All raccoons are chickens?

the raccoons glue chicken feathers on themselves?

 

[Blank]

All raccoons are chickens?

Don't know, don't care.. Some might feel safer living in the corner with chickens, some in the corner with foxes and some in their own private corner. But protecting the chicken from raccoons after they have lived among the foxes for decades seems a bit dishonest to me.

 

[qayak]

Kinda seems like you're beating around the bush.

The data that would be most useful would be whether trans people are more likely to commit offenses within these gender segregated places as a result of inclusive policies.

I will repeat what I have often said about these examples involving minors at schools, these anecdotes are particularly not useful because it's often illegal for the schools and authorities to speak plainly about what happened in the interest of protecting the confidentiality of children in their care.

What exactly do we know about this incident, for example? What was the nature of the assault and the relationship between the two involved? Probably not ever going to find out unless one or both (ideally both) go public, which strikes me as unlikely.

Your logic doesn't hold. On the spectrum of assaults you have one that you freely admit you know little about but you go ahead and hand wave it away as nothing. In fact, it is just as likely that it is at the other end of the spectrum and quite egregious.

Regardless, we know it was an assault. A crime. One that could, and has for decades, been held to a minimum to a minimum by separating the sexes in certain situations. In fact, an early warning of these types of crimes was a male entering a female only area.

 

[qayak]

All raccoons are chickens?

No, just those that identify as chickens are chickens. The rest know they are trash bandits and have to watch out for chickens who identify as velociraptors.

 

[LondonJohn]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

Yes. It's at once sad, amusing and instructive to watch the veil drop every now and again, whereby people claiming "it's all about the safety of women and/or kids" reveal their additional dislike (even hatred, sometimes) of transgender people, and their fundamental denial of transgender identity. It helps put their Trojan Horse arguments into the proper context and perspective.

 

[Brainster]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

Let me see if I've got this. The barn is a bathroom (or other female-only space), raccoons are transwomen, chickens are cis-women and foxes are... what? Men? No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[theprestige]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

An even more apt analogy would begin, "a human society inhabited by human beings..."

 

[crazycat]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn. For decades chicken lived in one side of the barn, foxes among them while the raccoons were kicked out to the ditch. Now and then a raccoon tried to enter the barn only to get bitten by foxes and clucked at by chicken - until one day the raccoons had enough and raised their voice:
"The barn is for all animals, winged or furry"

This statement was met with ridicule and malice:
"We need to keep the chickens safe" said the foxes in unison. "There's no space for you" said the chickens. How it will end up is still in question.. Does the farm have inalienable animal rights for all or is it just talk without substance?

Oh, but this analogy doesn't tell the whole story of life in the barn. Every now and then a fox would ignore the barn rule and eat a chicken. The other animals decided that the hen chickens would have their own private coops within the barn when they were vulnerable - laying eggs and sitting on nests, but otherwise animals would mingle. The barn inhabitants mostly obeyed the rule, but once again a fox broke the rules and grabbed a chicken even in her safe coop. But that fox was punished.

Raccoons wanted into the barn. The animals, trying the be inclusive, agreed. For some reason, even though the raccoons looked and acted like raccoons, the barn put them with the chickens, even in the chicken's safe coops where they were vulnerable. Not surprisingly, a few raccoons viewed being in the coops as an all-you-can-eat buffet. The other raccoons didn't scold the badly behaving raccoons and even called the chickens and foxes who didn't like the new coop rule names for being upset.

In real life, the chickens would all be gone, as both foxes and raccoons eat chickens and eggs.

 

[Blank]

Let me see if I've got this. The barn is a bathroom (or other female-only space), raccoons are transwomen, chickens are cis-women and foxes are... what? Men? No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

No, the analogy is intentionally stupid and contrived to mock an even dumber analogy to drive a point. Analogies are usually inane blatherings with very little to do with reality so it makes about as much sense as the analogy it was responding to.

However the point might be in such a barn where foxes have time after time eaten chickens but raccoons have not yet shown or proven to be a menace - they might or might not prove a danger.. Wouldn't the most logical option in order to truly protect the chickens be, to kick the foxes to the ditch and fill their coops with raccoons?

 

[Dismember]

What a misrepresentive analogy that is so far off the mark and trying to push the "protect women bla bla bla.." button so much.

A more apt analogy would be (going on farm):

A farm inhabited by chicken, foxes and raccoons that had a concept of inalienable animal rights for all had a barn.

There are objective, demonstrable differences between a raccoon and a fox. We don’t have to make guesses, and one can’t reasonably pretend to be the other. It has nothing to do with “identity”; we can conclusively determine which is which.

To date there is no way to distinguish between a standard-issue natal male and a natal male who sincerely believes he’s actually female. We just have to take their word for it. They might be wrong, they might be lying, etc. Further, even if they truly believe it, males can not be or become female. And if we let those males into our spaces, we have no way to exclude (or even tell the difference between) those who ARE a threat, who are mistaken, lying, etc.

As far as analogies go, in my opinion EC’s was better.

 

[Blank]

There are objective, demonstrable differences between a raccoon and a fox. We don’t have to make guesses, and one can’t reasonably pretend to be the other. It has nothing to do with “identity”; we can conclusively determine which is which.

To date there is no way to distinguish between a standard-issue natal male and a natal male who sincerely believes he’s actually female. We just have to take their word for it. They might be wrong, they might be lying, etc. Further, even if they truly believe it, males can not be or become female. And if we let those males into our spaces, we have no way to exclude (or even tell the difference between) those who ARE a threat, who are mistaken, lying, etc.

As far as analogies go, in my opinion EC’s was better.

3rd/non-gender people are medically and scientifically separate - this is the consensus, they are not mentally ill, they are not somehow sick, they are people who do not belong to either female/male category.

So you are for collective punishment based on belonging to a group? And for limiting rights that are in a modern society attributed to that group with presumption of guilt? And yet giving a pass to the foxes in my analogy?

Human rights is not about bathroom stalls - if you feel that that is the problem there are several totally viable solutions to that (unisex bathrooms etc etc..)

Pro-sports - not really a issue, private "companies" run these with their own guidelines and divisions and series. I don't see much complaints about any other genetic advantages in sport though I think I laughed at some "white only" - basketball league attempt at some point but not sure if it ever happened.