Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

[Gulliver Foyle]

Another thread where I disagree with most everyone and regret saying anything.

The notion that words are violence is stupid and dangerous.

On the other hand, what's so bad about being polite enough to address someone in they way they wish to be addressed?

On the other hand, I almost never use a gendered pronoun to address someone within in earshot, so who cares? Its an insult on the order of mispronouncing someone's name.

Another thread where I disagree with most everyone and regret saying anything.

Not if you understand even the barest minimum of how words can be used.

 

[Samson]

I just made the mistake of reading the link in the opening post and came to understand how the planet has shifted beneath me.

Try to introduce yourself with your own pronouns so that everyone you meet knows that you’re a safe space and that you won’t assume a person’s pronouns. It also prompts them to provide pronouns without it being awkward. (Ex. “Hello, my name is Alex and I use they/them/theirs pronouns.”)

 

[arthwollipot]

Try to introduce yourself with your own pronouns so that everyone you meet knows that you’re a safe space and that you won’t assume a person’s pronouns. It also prompts them to provide pronouns without it being awkward. (Ex. “Hello, my name is Alex and I use they/them/theirs pronouns.”)

I've been trying to encourage that for ages.

 

[Blank]

I just made the mistake of reading the link in the opening post and came to understand how the planet has shifted beneath me.

Try to introduce yourself with your own pronouns so that everyone you meet knows that you’re a safe space and that you won’t assume a person’s pronouns. It also prompts them to provide pronouns without it being awkward. (Ex. “Hello, my name is Alex and I use they/them/theirs pronouns.”)

There really is nothing special about this stuff.. Pronouns rarely even come to play in day to day interactions anyways.

It used to be obvious that in a case where someone goes:
"Hi, my name is Matthew but you can call me Matt" - people would actually like call them as Matt (or Matthew) instead of something like Mathilda. But this concept of courtesy is sadly a bit lost now.

 

[Samson]

Thanks both for these posts.
I feel even more adrift now.

 

[Darat]

There really is nothing special about this stuff.. Pronouns rarely even come to play in day to day interactions anyways.

It used to be obvious that in a case where someone goes:
"Hi, my name is Matthew but you can call me Matt" - people would actually like call them as Matt (or Matthew) instead of something like Mathilda. But this concept of courtesy is sadly a bit lost now.

My first name is a name that has a common and probably more used than the name in full alternate. I hate that name. When I introduce myself I tell folk my actual name, if they then use the shortened version I'll politely tell them they've got it wrong. 99.9% of people aren't then rude enough to continue to call me by the shortened name.

I see no difference if someone asks me to use he, she or they, if I'm referring to them by a pronoun, it's no skin off my nose, it doesn't affect me at all so why would I insist on being rude?

 

[Ziggurat]

Thanks both for these posts.
I feel even more adrift now.

Because you are, and the world has shifted beneath your feet.

There's considerable narcissism involved in wanting to control how other people refer to you when you aren't even there.

 

[Blank]

Because you are, and the world has shifted beneath your feet.

There's considerable narcissism involved in wanting to control how other people refer to you when you aren't even there.

Who is stopping you?

I mean sure if you exhibit that amount of respect towards co-worker/colleague/customer or whatever, you can call them by whatever term you want to whoever you want - Just be ready to carry the responsibility and possible consequences for it.

Generally insulting and talking trash about people who don't happen to be present is a bit of a chickens**t move anyway.

 

[Ziggurat]

Who is stopping you?

I mean sure if you exhibit that amount of respect towards co-worker/colleague/customer or whatever, you can call them by whatever term you want to whoever you want - Just be ready to carry the responsibility and possible consequences for it.

Generally insulting and talking trash about people who don't happen to be present is a bit of a chickens**t move anyway.

Who said anything about insults? I didn't.

 

[Blank]

Insult = "speak to or treat with disrespect"

If you are willfully and intentionally using a term that the person doesn't want to be called or used, you are in fact insulting them. This stuff is comparable to the shock a few decades ago when someone found out that using the N-word is not really appropriate in workplace surroundings.

 

[Hercules56]

I just made the mistake of reading the link in the opening post and came to understand how the planet has shifted beneath me.

Try to introduce yourself with your own pronouns so that everyone you meet knows that you’re a safe space and that you won’t assume a person’s pronouns. It also prompts them to provide pronouns without it being awkward. (Ex. “Hello, my name is Alex and I use they/them/theirs pronouns.”)

Yeah its ******* ridiculous and damn obnoxious.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yeah its ******* ridiculous and damn obnoxious.

Be sure to tell all your coworkers and your boss how much it bothers you!

HR should give slide shows about neopronouns solely as an exercise to identify whiny boomers to fire before their curmudgeonly ways cause a discrimination lawsuit. It's so incredibly easy to get these bitter old farts to out themselves.

 

[Hercules56]

Exactly. And people who kill themselves due to relentless verbal bullying are the enemies of free speech, so who cares if they die?
Those who wish to 'just say harmless words' day in day out should be free and unobstructed to do so.

Wait.... that also means that those who wish to shout over and insult right wing speakers at universities should also be completely free to do so right? After all, it's just words.

So now I don't care about kids committing suicide??

Really?? Basically you're saying "we must criminalize the intentional misuse of pronouns, as this will prevent little Joey and Sally from shooting themselves in the head".

Unbelievable. And yes I understand you didn't say anything about criminalizing but this is a logical conclusion of your argument. The best way to prevent something from happening is to make it a crime and that's the logical conclusion of your comment.

New York City and other cities charge fines to bosses and landlords who intentionally use the wrong pronouns, perhaps we should raise that to 5 to 15 years in prison.

 

[Ziggurat]

Insult = "speak to or treat with disrespect"

When you're talking about someone when they aren't there, you obviously aren't speaking to them. And why is it automatically disrespectful to use a pronoun that is easier for the listener to interpret than a pronoun that the person referred to, who isn't even there, might prefer? Again, this is narcissism. The fact that narcissists feel insulted doesn't mean that you actually insulted them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Be sure to tell all your coworkers and your boss how much it bothers you!

HR should give slide shows about neopronouns solely as an exercise to identify whiny boomers to fire before their curmudgeonly ways cause a discrimination lawsuit. It's so incredibly easy to get these bitter old farts to out themselves.

It's quite curious that the problem is never the people who file frivolous lawsuits, but only the people who trigger them. That does seem to be the approach that many HR departments are taking. I don't think it's going to work out well for those companies in the long run. But then, they've got a major agent-principle problem with those HR departments.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

When you're talking about someone when they aren't there, you obviously aren't speaking to them. And why is it automatically disrespectful to use a pronoun that is easier for the listener to interpret than a pronoun that the person referred to, who isn't even there, might prefer? Again, this is narcissism. The fact that narcissists feel insulted doesn't mean that you actually insulted them.

I can't imagine constantly code-switching based on present company being less confusing, especially if the people you're speaking with aren't also dead-ender bigots who treat basic courtesy as some tremendous burden.

 

[Hercules56]

I think the moral lesson of this thread is that we need to teach our children to have thicker skin. Clearly they are way too sensitive and their feelings are way too delicate. Life is sometimes complicated and difficult and on occasion you will encounter language that you find hurtful. That doesn't give you the right to smack somebody or accuse them of a crime. In essence, grow up butter cup.

 

[Ziggurat]

I can't imagine constantly code-switching based on present company being less confusing, especially if the people you're speaking with aren't also dead-ender bigots who treat basic courtesy as some tremendous burden.

It actually is a significant burden to ask people to remember non-standard pronouns.

But narcissism must be accommodated, or you're a bigot. Because apparently it's such a tremendous burden to choose standard pronouns (whatever the gender) that we can't even ask people to do so out of courtesy.

Consideration is apparently a one-way street.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It actually is a significant burden to ask people to remember non-standard pronouns.

But narcissism must be accommodated, or you're a bigot. Because apparently it's such a tremendous burden to choose standard pronouns (whatever the gender) that we can't even ask people to do so out of courtesy.

Consideration is apparently a one-way street.

It's an incredibly useful and quick way to find out who acquaintances you might not know very well are incredibly petty and rude. I encourage all out of touch boomers to die on this hill.

 

[Hercules56]

I can't imagine constantly code-switching based on present company being less confusing, especially if the people you're speaking with aren't also dead-ender bigots who treat basic courtesy as some tremendous burden.

There is nothing courteous about encouraging our kids to treat possibly hurtful words as a criminal act. Such an attitude is turning our children into delicate little snowflakes who will collapse at the first sign of possible transgression.

We need to teach our children to man up, not blow up.