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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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After being around my daughter's high school swim and water polo teams- and club teams- I am very sure--Absolutely SURE...that no competitive male will ever join their team or be naked in their lockers. They know this as some crazy foreign thing that happened elsewhere and are already opinionated about it.
The outrage from players and parents would disable the entire countrywide tactics to normalize it. The culture at this specific merit-based highly asian populated school would not allow for it. Snowball in hell chances.

It is California- but it's also California sports. Competitive schools. Scholarship schools. AP Blue Ribbon International Baccalaureate schools.
Women in the mens divisioon? Yay! Always has been allowed but not often done. Maybe the occasional football kicker.
Males in the girls space? Not gonna happen here.
These girls are not wilted lilies.
 
After being around my daughter's high school swim and water polo teams- and club teams- I am very sure--Absolutely SURE...that no competitive male will ever join their team or be naked in their lockers. They know this as some crazy foreign thing that happened elsewhere and are already opinionated about it.
The outrage from players and parents would disable the entire countrywide tactics to normalize it. The culture at this specific merit-based highly asian populated school would not allow for it. Snowball in hell chances.

It is California- but it's also California sports. Competitive schools. Scholarship schools. AP Blue Ribbon International Baccalaureate schools.
Women in the mens divisioon? Yay! Always has been allowed but not often done. Maybe the occasional football kicker.
Males in the girls space? Not gonna happen here.
These girls are not wilted lilies.

I'm curious what exactly you think these not wilted lilies will do to stop it. As far as I can tell California law does not allow for trans exclusion. Are we talking about extralegal solutions? I suppose lynch mobs are effective in their own brutal way. Gay bashing is a time honored tradition of enforcing gender roles.
 
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I'm curious what exactly you think these not wilted lilies will do to stop it. As far as I can tell California law does not allow for trans exclusion. Are we talking about extralegal solutions? I suppose lynch mobs are effective in their own brutal way. Gay bashing is a time honored tradition of enforcing gender roles.

We have private clubs and also hs sports. If one gets a post pubescent male athlete, the girls won't swim. Their parents will not let them swim.

They will go play violin and piano and join a private swim club. :p

eta: this may not have been true 3 years ago before the effects of such policies were seen in real time (as I predicted btw). Now? So true. It wont be allowed.
 
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Transphobe who surreptitiously took a photo of a supposed trans woman in a public toilet and then shared it on social media is claiming that her phone was seized by the cops who are investigating her for a potential felony in Texas.

https://twitter.com/AriDrennen/status/1663930267143397377?cxt=HHwWgoDTgePwu5cuAAAA

Doesn't seem to be claim that is verifiable at this time, but hope springs eternal for a funny outcome.
 
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Transphobe who surreptitiously took a photo of a supposed trans woman in a public toilet and then shared it on social media is claiming that her phone was seized by the cops who are investigating her for a potential felony in Texas.

https://twitter.com/AriDrennen/status/1663930267143397377?cxt=HHwWgoDTgePwu5cuAAAA

Doesn't seem to be claim that is verifiable at this time, but hope springs eternal for a funny outcome.

Didnt read it but I am not a fan of taking photos in restrooms or any other sex-segregated private spaces. Or even other spaces. Just not a fan.

With a few billion people on the planet though, it will happen and someone on twitter will find it. Yawn.

How about we speak about the fundamental changes in sharing women's opportunities... as is actually a potential real world effect?

Bathroom anecdotes are boring unless a penis is out or a woman (biological) young girl (biological) is accosted...then it is a serious crime regardless of the wig and padded bra you may or may not have on.
 
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In response to a freedom of information request, Tavistock denied that it had any relevant information on it's associations with Mermaids. A week or so ago the information regulator found on the balance of probabilities that it did, and ordered it to release the information under threat of further action. Tavistock has now released 300 pages of information (which it previously claimed not to have). Ophelia Benson has a brief summary of this on Butterflies and Wheels.

A twitter user has posted links to the released papers which documents links between Mermaids, the then head of Mermaids Susie Green (who has no medical qualifications but was on advisory panels) and GIDs, so you can see for yourself.

:boggled:

"No no, we don't have any association with Mermaids at all!"
...
"Here's our novel-length stack of documents outlining our association with Mermaids"

How did we end up at a stage where people think that if they just say something, everyone will believe them and it can't be questioned ever? When did we decide to sacrifice objective reality and facts?
 
I dare say that most of the people here on this forum have or have had a condition in the DSM at sometime in their lives, whether diagnosed or not. As do people in general.

Mental illness should never be stigmatized. Unfortunately it often is.

:w2:

My sister is bipolar. My spouse is ADHD and has PTSD. My mother in law suffers from persistent depression. I have two autistic cousins and an uncle with severe OCD.

Mental illness should absolutely NOT be stigmatized; and treatment should be more easily available without judgement.
 
50 years ago when homosexuality was illegal almost no-one openly identified as gay. When the legal oppression stopped, more claimants appeared. Seems to be a similar pattern with people suffering gender dysmorphia.

Alright. Let's assume for a moment that you are correct, and that it's all just a matter of people feeling empowered to speak out and not stay closeted.

How do you explain:
1) Massive increase in females identifying as transgender during puberty, a cohort which effectively did not even exist 20 years ago?
2) Clusters of transgender identified teenagers with no prior history of dysphoria, who are all in the same friend group?

Honestly, people make comparisons to homosexuality as if transgender is the same thing. But in reality, in the US there was no legal oppression of transgender people... ever. The closest you can get is that cosmetic surgeries aren't covered by insurance - but people who were transgender as far back as the 40s or so could still get SRS and hormones, and they did so.

Up until very recently, there has been no legal barrier to a person being transgender in any fashion - and even now, these barriers are only in place for minors. Nobody policed clothing, and while a male in a dress might get some odd looks, pretty much nobody ******* cared.

The activists keep talking about how oppressed transgender people are in the US, and I just don't see it.

All of the recent legislation has been related to 1) minors and 2) the erosion of female rights that result from self-identification.
 
Legal and sociocultural oppression of transgender people never stopped, according to trans activist groups. In some ways, it is noticeably worse than before.

Actually... it IS worse than it was before.

But let's be realistic here. The nature of what constitutes "transgender" has substantially changed.

Previously - say 20 years ago - there were transgender people, although they were generally referred to as transsexual. They were largely male, with females being a very small portion. They were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, they had therapy and counseling to try to reconcile them to their physical bodies. And if that therapy failed to work, they were screened for other comorbid mental health issues that needed to be addressed first, and then they were supported through transition.

For the general public, especially females, there was trust. We trusted that the person with the male physique next to us had been counseled, had been given tips on how to not make females feel uncomfortable or intimidated, how to blend in and be respectful. They had almost all had considerable hormone therapy and usually had breast implants. Many of them had additional cosmetic surgeries to make their faces appear more feminine. We assumed* they had almost all had a penectomy, orchiectomy, and vaginoplasty.

Most females were aware that they were male - they were tall, broad shouldered, with huge hands and feet, deep voices, and a male gait. But they were never inappropriate, and we knew they were going through something. Even if we didn't completely understand it, we could extrapolate, and we had compassion because it must be truly distressing to be so at odds with your own sexed body. So we had empathy and care, and we were willing to make accommodations, and to pretend that we couldn't tell they were male.

If you look at today... this is not even remotely the case anymore. Now, females are being told that we have no choice, that we should be forced by law to accept any male into our presence, solely on the basis of them saying a magical phrase. Modern transgender identified males have been very vocal about their intention to NEVER remove their male genitals, about their desire to continue to use their male genitals in a very male sexual way. They've insisted that they should need no diagnosis, no counseling, no training. They've told us that it's bigoted to expect them to even TRY to pass as female. And they've shared their sexual arousal at the thought of being in female spaces with the entire world through video and twitter and reddit and similar - they've been extremely clear that many of the modern crop of transgender identified males have a lot of sexual kinks and paraphilias, and that they are sexually aroused by violating female boundaries.

They have redefined the language that we use to describe ourselves, and have excluded us from our own language. They've insisted that we cannot be "women" without including males, we can't have feminism unless it centers the desires of males, we can't have female locker rooms unless they're open to males who wish to use them.

They've removed all of the gatekeeping, and they've become extremely aggressive about demanding that females relinquish all of our boundaries, and that we must allow them access to us under threat of law and of violence. They have harassed females who gather to talk about the impact of their demands on our rights. They have threatened rape shelters. They've called for violence against females who won't give in. They've physically assaulted females on multiple occasions for nothing more than talking about the impact of our sex on our lives and our rights.

So let's be clear: Opposition is definitely stronger toward this new breed of transgender identified people than it ever was toward the transsexuals of prior years. Because these new transgender people are materially different in behavior, aggression, and temperament than the transsexual people of prior years.

It's a completely new opposition to a completely new phenomenon which has a completely new set of very aggressive demands.


*Turns out our assumption was incorrect, and only about 20% of them had genital SRS of any sort. But they behaved appropriately, never gave us reason to distrust them, and they were never seen in female spaces unclothed.
 
It's based on a line of thinking that has these premises:

  1. Sex is wholly separate from gender
  2. Gender is socially constructed

This means that there isn't anything innate in what makes someone a "man" or a "woman" but rather these are just constructed roles that people are socialised into performing. So a man is a person performing the "man" role. As this is socially constructed you can just reconstruct the role to remove any sex based requirements from the role. So a female can, by performing the social role, become a "man" while still remaining female.

I feel like this line of reasoning has become popular in some influential circles and by influencing social policy has come to a point where it's come crashing into traditional definitions where sex is a necessary part to these social roles.

What seems to slip past a lot of people is that this view, that gender is a performance of a socially constructed role, is innately regressive. It reinforces those social roles. It pretends to remove sex from the performance... but in reality it is reinforcing those sex-based divisions, making them even stronger, and just gives some people the right to ignore the aspect of sex in their performances.

It teaches children that if they don't conform to those artificial social constructs... they must be transgender.

It teaches young males that if they don't like sports and competition and dirt and fighting and aggression and yelling and all the other "boy stuff", then they must not be a "real boy", they must be a "transgirl"... and they should force their testes up into their inguinal canals and take drugs to force their perfectly healthy bodies to appear less like that of a young male, and they should adopt the artificial role of the opposite sex.

It teaches young females that if they don't like pink and glitter and acting like they're dumb and giggling all the time and being a hypersexualized object for males to gaze upon... then they must not be a "real girl", they must be a "transboy"... and they should take drugs and wear binders or get their healthy breasts removed so they appear less like a young female, and they should adopt the artificial role of the opposite sex.

The entire approach ends up teaching young people that the artificial social constructs are somehow "right and natural", and if they don't like those constructs, there's something wrong with them and they must be trans...

But it's okay, because trans is great, so let's celebrate the destruction of health bodies in our zealous crusade to reify sexist gender roles in society.
 
It seems relatively unscientific to pretend that masculinity and femininity are in no sense tied to physical and psychological sexual dimorphism in Homo sapiens.

It is very unscientific. But it's also a motte and bailey (although I can never remember which is the weak and which is the strong).

They don't have to go that far. They can go halfway - and that's largely what they do.

Consider arguments of "born in the wrong body" and "female brain in a male body". Those don't explicitly say that masculinity and femininity are separate from sexual dimorphism. Rather, they say that sexual dimorphism is real and that social gender roles are innate and that some people have the minds of the opposite sex's gender role.

This is similar to the arguments that "sex is a spectrum" or that "sex is super complex and you can never know for sure if someone is male or female". That also doesn't explicitly claim that masculinity is separate from male or that femininity is separate from female. Rather, it makes the implied argument that nobody is really 100% male or 100% female, and that there's a blurring between them that is so vast that the only way to infer anything about a person is based on what social role they perform, and that the physical indicators of our sexual dimorphism are entirely unreliable and downright arbitrary.

The implied claim is that gender is completely distinct from sex. But all of the arguments are some form of gaslighting that tap-dances around that implication.
 
Just for balance, this

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina.


Good lord. No. Just no.

A person with an artificial vaginal canal needs medical care for their artificial opening... but it's not a vagina, and they don't have a cervix. They don't need to be screened for cervical cancer, nor for endometriosis, nor for fibroids, nor for PCOS. They don't need care to ensure their artificial canal retains elasticity and moisture as they become perimenopausal.

A person with an artificial canal does need care - they need care to ensure that their artificial opening doesn't become infected, that it doesn't close up (as wounds are wont to do), and they need education on how to properly maintain that artificial opening. But none of that is in scope for a gynecologist. They need care from a genital surgeon.

Most of this article is about transgender identified females... and since they are still female, they still need gynecological care. They SHOULD be going to a gynecologist regularly.

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina. Your OB/GYN can also prescribe and monitor estrogen or progesterone hormone replacement therapy (HRT), test for STIs, and screen for intimate partner violence. In addition, anyone with breast tissue needs regular breast cancer screenings – especially if you have a family history of breast cancer.

Some trans women undergoing gender-affirming hormone therapy experience PMS-like symptoms due to increased estrogen levels. While they won’t actually menstruate, they may still benefit from consulting with an OB/GYN about their new symptoms.
A transgender identified male with a fake vagina does not need gynecological care for their not-a-vagina.

Estrogen and progesterone can be prescribed and monitored by a primary care physician, who can also test for the STIs that males are prone to acquire. PCPs also routinely screen for domestic violence.

I'll give you that a male taking exogenous estrogen should get screened for breast cancer, but again this can be done on their own or via a PCP.

And for that last bit.... No. Males taking estrogen absolutely do NOT experience "PMS like symptoms". None at all. Seriously this is complete and utter make-believe. It is not the hormones that cause PMS and menstrual symptoms. It is the uterus. It is the swelling of the uterus as it builds up tissue, and it is the contraction of the uterine walls as it expels that tissue. Additionally, the emotional aspect of PMS is caused by the change in mix of progesterone and estrogen. A transgender identified male taking exogenous estrogen should be taking a consistent dose. There is no reason for their hormone mix to change (and it would be detrimental to their transition to do so).

The claims of transgender identified males having PMS and "monthly cycles" are either ridiculous performances that are entirely fictional, or they're an expression of dire mental illness that needs professional help. Which I wholeheartedly encourage them to get.
 
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Good lord. No. Just no.

The advantage of political correctness is you don't need to know much about any subject, you just need to know the dogma. A trans woman is a woman, women need gynecologists, therefore trans women need gynecologists. All that messy stuff about female reproductive anatomy? Doesn't matter, don't need to know.

I'm reminded a bit of one of the best bits of television comedy, from King of the Hill. Hank is trying to introduce his new neighbor Khan, and everyone keeps assuming he's Chinese. But when he meets Cotton, who fought in the Pacific during WW2 and despite being a raging bigot actually knows a thing or two, Cotton immediately says in an accusatory voice, "You ain't Chinese, you'se Laotian!", which Khan is. Cotton thinks Khan is trying to pull a fast one, but unlike other characters who are trying to be accepting but keep offending by accident, he's the only one who gets it right.

I'm not advocating people be like Cotton (he really is a jerk), but political correctness is no substitute to actual knowledge.
 
"Oh, that will never happen. But if it does happen, it will be so incredibly rare that nobody will notice. And well, even if it happens a little more often, that's okay, it won't have any negative affect on females so it's not a big deal."

It has happened. Again. More and more frequently. And affecting more and more females.

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1664013863833210880
 
"Oh, that will never happen. But if it does happen, it will be so incredibly rare that nobody will notice. And well, even if it happens a little more often, that's okay, it won't have any negative affect on females so it's not a big deal."

It has happened. Again. More and more frequently. And affecting more and more females.

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1664013863833210880

When reality hits the mainstream with such unfairness, then ***** hits the fan and people say "NO".
The fact that the non-sports brainwashed masses people were accepting on a false theory is running out of any relevance when real life-long athletic women are losing real prize money to mediocre male competititors.

What is real is still real and that will not change.

Tick tock. I give this a year more to completely implode.
 
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The more I think about it, the more circular it seems.

"I have to compete in sports as a woman."

"Why?"

"Because that's a thing we say women do. It's important to my valid lived experience of being a woman, to do all the things we say women do."

"Well,we've thought it over, and now we're saying that competing as a female is something females do. Competing as a male is totally something women do, if they happen to be male."

... And then we see once again that transgenderism is meaningless, and the real thing is transsexualism.

Every single controversy about transgender rights today, from pronouns to pro sports, is really a controversy about transsexuals trying to normalize an invalid lived condition.
 
OKLAHOMA CITY (KOKH) — An Edmond Public Schools parent filed a lawsuit against the district, claiming her 15-year-old daughter was attacked and "severely beaten" by a 17-year-old transgender student in the girl's bathroom.

According to the lawsuit, the district knew the student, who is a biological male but identifies as female, used the bathroom assigned to girls.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/edmon...ls-oklahoma-county-district-court-may-25-2023
 
OKLAHOMA CITY (KOKH) — An Edmond Public Schools parent filed a lawsuit against the district, claiming her 15-year-old daughter was attacked and "severely beaten" by a 17-year-old transgender student in the girl's bathroom.

According to the lawsuit, the district knew the student, who is a biological male but identifies as female, used the bathroom assigned to girls.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/edmon...ls-oklahoma-county-district-court-may-25-2023

One of the lesser horrors of stories like this is that the TRA community has no clue about how to help young men like this.

TRAs in this thread! I challenge you! Present your plan for helping female-identifying male teens to understand that assaulting women in the women's restroom is not a part of their valid lived identity. Present your plan, or go down in ignominy.
 
OKLAHOMA CITY (KOKH) — An Edmond Public Schools parent filed a lawsuit against the district, claiming her 15-year-old daughter was attacked and "severely beaten" by a 17-year-old transgender student in the girl's bathroom.

According to the lawsuit, the district knew the student, who is a biological male but identifies as female, used the bathroom assigned to girls.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/edmon...ls-oklahoma-county-district-court-may-25-2023
This qualifies as a local news story for me, since I graduated from that high school and still have kids in that school district.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
:jaw-dropp
This qualifies as a local news story for me, since I graduated from that high school and still have kids in that school district.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
It should qualify as a story of interest to the full parliament in New Zealand who voted that on June 16 sex can be changed on birth certificates with no qualification for 18 plus, and with one signature from parent or guardian or qualified person for those 16 and 17.
 
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