Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

[Emily's Cat]

And those abused by FEMALE abusers? Refuges in the UK are set up to provide safe accommodation for women who are victims of domestic abuse. Not all the abusers will be MALES. (Is this some new nomenclature that we have to use capitals?) They are not set up to be MALE free spaces, they are set up to be safe places where female victims of domestic abuse can be safe from their abusers and if they wish be supported in creating a new life apart from their abuser.

Not all the abusers will be male... only 99% of them. And because 99% of domestic abusers and rapists are male, almost every shelter started out as female-only, and is expected to be female only by those who use those services.

 

[Emily's Cat]

On this I know from personal experience you are wrong to make it a categorical statement, at least to cover the UK. Homosexuals have not always been welcomed in refuges for women despite being victims of domestic violence. From a quick google search I can see there is evidence that lesbians are turned away from refuges even in recent times.

Funny. I can't find anything that supports this. At least, nothing that supports your claim that females who are same-sex attracted are refused entry to those refuges.

One of the stories that came up when I went to search about the topic was this one: https://www.vice.com/en/article/vdqz39/lgbtq-domestic-violence-survivors-cant-access-shelters

Now most of that article is about trans women and male victims of domestic violence however there was a small segment that I think illustrates that it is abusers that need to be excluded from access to refuges regardless of their sex, it is not males that need to be excluded it is abusers. Which is why I said it should be up to those running the refuges as to who they allow in.

...As a survivor named Sylvia described in the NCAVP report, she was afraid to enter a shelter once learning there was no way to guarantee her abusive girlfriend would be barred from entering. For lesbian and bisexual women, the threat of an abuser following them into a shelter is a very real prospect...​

Sylvia was not refused entry, they were not turned away. This does not support your claim.

Sylvia felt that they would not be safe there, because their abuser would be able to gain entry. And that's very unfortunate, I would support some additional provision of security for females who are same sex attracted.

On the other hand, the situation Sylvia faced - feeling unsafe because there was no protection from their abuser - is the exact same situation that is forced on female abuse survivors when their single-sex shelters are turned into unisex shelters that allow males entry as a right. Your position creates more situations like Sylvia's... and it does not at all address Sylvia's concerns.

Insisting that shelters that serve an exclusively female population must by force of law become available to males isn't a reasonable solution. It provides a shelter for the 1% of victims who are male... but removing safety and security for the 99% of victims who are female.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Students sever ties with Oxford Union over ‘toxic environment’

[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230511/6ac2adb166ba4a7d4b2a8b1b448e03e1.jpg[/qimg]

https://archive.is/Srlmb

I can't help but laugh at the dinsgenuous framing in there - Stock "quite" after being "accused of transphobia". Let's try a little more honesty - Stock left her job after having been subjected to several weeks of harassment, threats, vilification, and slanderous actions directed against them. And then, only after the university said that it could not guarantee Stock's safety while performing their job as a professor.

Stock was threatened and harassed out of their job, because they were at risk of being physically harmed.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I can't help but laugh at the dinsgenuous framing in there - Stock "quite" after being "accused of transphobia". Let's try a little more honesty - Stock left her job after having been subjected to several weeks of harassment, threats, vilification, and slanderous actions directed against them. And then, only after the university said that it could not guarantee Stock's safety while performing their job as a professor.

Stock was threatened and harassed out of their job, because they were at risk of being physically harmed.

So yeah, she quit. She was a tenured professor and had all the job security in the world. The school explicitly told her they wouldn't be deferring to those calling for her termination.

Echoes of Brett Weinstein, framing their own decision to quit as falling victim to cancel culture.

 

[Manger Douse]

She was a tenured professor and had all the job security in the world. .

She wasn't given security security though - that's why she quit, because security security is more important than a job

 

[TurkeysGhost]

She wasn't given security security though - that's why she quit, because security security is more important than a job

If you believe her version of events, sure.

Worth pointing out that being "cancelled" is quite the profile boost in certain circles. Stock is probably better known now as a martyr than she was before as a normal academic.

Seems more likely to me she's more in the Jordan Peterson brand of self-promotion. Seems like an easier gig for sure.

 

[Emily's Cat]

So yeah, she quit. She was a tenured professor and had all the job security in the world. The school explicitly told her they wouldn't be deferring to those calling for her termination.

"Your job is totally safe, Professor Stock. It's just that, you know, we aren't going to do anything to keep you from being constantly harassed and threatened, we're not going to anything to protect you from actual attacks while you're doing your job. You're on your own with that. So as long as you are fine with being barraged with invective, calls for violence against, and slander, you totally have a job."

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you believe her version of events, sure.

There's photographic evidence of Stock's version of events.

 

[Pixel42]

I think the term for that is constructive dismissal.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think the term for that is constructive dismissal.

Sorry, I'm missing context as well as understanding. What's the term applying to? And what is "constructive dismissal"?

 

[theprestige]

Don't alter my statements. Your alterations of them make them mean something entirely different from what I intend. It results in you trying to put words in my mouth, or to otherwise tell me what I really think. Please stop, you aren't good at it.

I said males, and I mean males. Specifically, explicitly, unquestionably I mean males. They are female shelters. They are not unisex shelters. FEMALE shelters. For FEMALES. Not MALES. How hard is this to understand?

It's consistent with TRA ideology: The best way to find out what a woman meant to say, or should have said, is to ask a man.

 

[d4m10n]

Sorry, I'm missing context as well as understanding. What's the term applying to? And what is "constructive dismissal"?

The behavior of Sussex U. towards Professor Stock, one assumes.

I don't think there really is much more that the uni admin could have done. The student protests were nonviolent and didn't consist of particularized threats.
https://twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1455838464801394688

That said, I don't blame Stock for giving in to the demands of the cancel culture warriors. Who would want to stick around at a workplace where you are constantly reminded that dozens (hundreds?) of people hate you for doing your job.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It's consistent with TRA ideology: The best way to find out what a woman meant to say, or should have said, is to ask a man.

Ironic projection considering that TERFs remain an extremely vocal minority of both women and feminism, yet the way they frame things you'd think they speak for all women everywhere.

 

[The Atheist]

Better grow your hair out, wear a full face a makeup, and wear a dress just to make sure these freaks don't bother you. You know, to protect women.

Even better, have all real sheilas show camel toe to prove they're women and not hiding anything.

Maybe that's the end game?

 

[The Atheist]

Sorry, I'm missing context as well as understanding. What's the term applying to? And what is "constructive dismissal"?

It's a term used in countries that have employee rights and protections.

It's when an employer creates a situation the employee is unable to cope with and leaves the job, thereby causing a termination without actually firing the employee.

 

[Manger Douse]

Ironic projection considering that TERFs remain an extremely vocal minority of both women and feminism, yet the way they frame things you'd think they speak for all women everywhere.

Is this another one of your trans-facts?

 

[Samson]

Is this another one of your trans-facts?

TERFs might be a huge majority of women. Exclusionary is a well repeated mix of sports, changing rooms, refuges and prisons, from what I understand. In each case largely but not solely driven by fear of much greater size and strength. Terfs might be ordinary people in fact who feel ambushed again when the feminists had been broadly successful in their common sense campaign.
The absence of women clamoring to compete in male sports, of men's refuges, of men demanding women be excluded from their changing rooms, and of male anxiety at being housed in prisons with female inmates, is the other side of this coin.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Ironic projection considering that TERFs remain an extremely vocal minority of both women and feminism, yet the way they frame things you'd think they speak for all women everywhere.

Kind of depends on what you think you mean by the term "TERF".

For example, a majority of both females and males oppose people with penises using female intimate spaces. Do you consider that to be a "TERF"? position? A majority of both females and males oppose males competing in female athletics. Do you consider that to be a "TERF" position? A majority of both females and males oppose placing males with fully functional sex organs in female prisons. Do you consider that to be a "TERF" position?

 

[Emily's Cat]

It's a term used in countries that have employee rights and protections.

It's when an employer creates a situation the employee is unable to cope with and leaves the job, thereby causing a termination without actually firing the employee.

Thank you. Useful term to know!

 

[Samson]

I am curious.
Can a man competing in women's sport earn a living? If so there is less of a mystery but more of a sin.