Merged What the quran really says.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I wonder if you people ever watch the news. Do you remember the recent attempt by ISIS to take over the middle east and turn it into an Islamic caliphate. I wonder whose side you are on.

I do remember that.

Do you remember that most of their victims were other Muslims? And that their main beef was with those Muslims not reading their holy book the right way?

As with all other religions, their greatest enemies are those that believe the same faith slightly differently.

You have fallen into some conspiracy crap that somehow Muslims are no longer human and behave like some monolithic hive mind who all have but one goal.
And to reinforce that conspiracy you ignore that the Muslim faith, like all the others, is so vague as to be freely interpretable by anyone to say anything they want.

So, can you give an actual reason why Muslims are unable to do that, whereas the people believing in other faiths can? Because all faiths claim they are the direct words of their respective god(s) and should be fully obeyed.

 

[Scorpion]

There is no comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. I maintain that no matter what Jesus may have said, he did not generally advocate war and fighting but peace and forgiveness.. But Muhammad was a warlord.

2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of God Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

4.76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.


48.16 Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, God will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

 

[Pixel42]

What news channel do you watch? because Europe is being over run. But I will save that until I start my thread on the matter.

You don't need to have your information filtered by any news channel, you can look at e.g. the most recent UK census for yourself:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula.../bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

There were increases in the number of people who described themselves as “Muslim” (3.9 million, 6.5% in 2021, up from 2.7 million, 4.9% in 2011) and “Hindu” (1.0 million, 1.7% in 2021, up from 818,000, 1.5% in 2011).

Are you really describing an increase from 4.9% to 6.5% in 10 years as "being overrun"?

 

[Pixel42]

I find that remark slightly irritating, but I will not engage with you on it until I start a thread called. 'The reality of ESP' which is the title of the book by Russell Targ. You might like to read it before commenting on ESP.

You might like to read The Men Who Stare at Goats by Jon Ronson before starting a thread about a book by one of the architects of Project Stargate.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

What news channel do you watch? because Europe is being over run. But I will save that until I start my thread on the matter.

Which news channel do you watch, because no such thing is happening. You do know that countries keep censuses right? You can check up on the religious and ethnic makeup of a country quite easily. Please show me countries in Europe being "overrun" by Muslims. I'll wait.

(Note, don't be silly enough to quote countries with a historically majority or plurality of Muslims like say Bosnia or Albania).

Yes



I remember you quoting a couple of verses from Jesus

Your response was...?

That remark make me wonder if you have ever actually read the Quran.

Yes, I have. Have you ever read the Bible? It's monstrous. Genocidal wars, rape, incestuous rape, child sex slaves, god getting pissy and killing people constantly, children dying over and over and over again to sate the whims of a psychopathic god. You've even got people being commanded to stone people to death for such "crimes" as crop rotation and wearing clothes made from two different cloths.

Then you get to the New Testament and people are being racially abused, ordered to kill children, the entire cluster-**** of Revelation, plus Jesus repeatedly saying he's a-ok with the laws of the OT. Oh, and he also says that most people will be sent to hell. You know, that thing that made you think that the Quran was evil? Jesus says most people will end up there. He supports this.

 

[Scorpion]

You don't need to have your information filtered by any news channel, you can look at e.g. the most recent UK census for yourself:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula.../bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021



Are you really describing an increase from 4.9% to 6.5% in 10 years as "being overrun"?

I have started a thread about the Islamification of Britain in the conspiracy forum.

 

[Scorpion]

Which news channel do you watch, because no such thing is happening. You do know that countries keep censuses right? You can check up on the religious and ethnic makeup of a country quite easily. Please show me countries in Europe being "overrun" by Muslims. I'll wait.

(Note, don't be silly enough to quote countries with a historically majority or plurality of Muslims like say Bosnia or Albania).

Your response was...?




Yes, I have. Have you ever read the Bible? It's monstrous. Genocidal wars, rape, incestuous rape, child sex slaves, god getting pissy and killing people constantly, children dying over and over and over again to sate the whims of a psychopathic god. You've even got people being commanded to stone people to death for such "crimes" as crop rotation and wearing clothes made from two different cloths.

Then you get to the New Testament and people are being racially abused, ordered to kill children, the entire cluster-**** of Revelation, plus Jesus repeatedly saying he's a-ok with the laws of the OT. Oh, and he also says that most people will be sent to hell. You know, that thing that made you think that the Quran was evil? Jesus says most people will end up there. He supports this.

I am not interested in what it says in the bible. But it seems I must express an opinion on this thread in spite of trying to keep to the subject to the actual texts of the unholy Quran.

As far as I am concerned Muhammad stole much of his material from the bible. The Quran is full of half remembered bible stories that mostly seem to assume you already know the stories he is mentioning, because without reading the bible his version of the stories do not make sense. This might be said to be a literary criticism of the Quran. Which is poorly written and poorly constructed. The fact that nearly two billion people think this book is the words of God is a frightening thing. because it teaches them their half witted God curses anyone who does not believe in the mumblings of Muhammad, and he will burn and torture unbelievers forever. It teaches them to make war on unbelievers, and kill and maim them.

As far as I am concerned Muhammad was an evil liar who frightened people with lurid descriptions of hell, the idea of which is another thing he stole from the bible.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Well he won't be coming. Twitter appear to have deleted my tweet to him. They do not say anything to me or ban me, they just delete some of my tweets.

It's entirely possible that Spencer deleted your tweet.

I sent a lot of tweets to the Russians telling them to get rid of Putin before he blows up the world, but twitter deleted them all.

If only you'd got through to "the Russians"... You might have been able to avert this whole dictator problem.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I wonder if you people ever watch the news. Do you remember the recent attempt by ISIS to take over the middle east and turn it into an Islamic caliphate. I wonder whose side you are on.

I wonder if you have heard about the recent attempt by Mr Spencer and his fellow neo-nazis to overthrow the US government and install Trump as dictator?

As I said, you're free to listen to the neo-nazi; just don't expect anybody with any sense to take you seriously.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I am not interested in what it says in the bible.

Except you have outright stated that you think that the level of evil in the Quran is higher. So you either do care because you think the Quran is worse, or you don't actually care about the horrible things in the holy book but only focus on the Quran for some other reason.

But it seems I must express an opinion on this thread in spite of trying to keep to the subject to the actual texts of the unholy Quran.

Because you're using your understandable distaste of the things in the Quran as a reason to hate Muslims. If you just think the Quran is a trash book full of horrible morals then I doubt you would get many arguments, but you are using that to project those morals on to Muslims.

Now you could say that well it's their holy book, so they should care about/follow the horrible rules in it, but then you have to deal with Christians too. Their holy book is filled with commandments to kill, enslave and rape but you're not worried about the number of Christians in the UK are you?

As far as I am concerned Muhammad stole much of his material from the bible. The Quran is full of half remembered bible stories that mostly seem to assume you already know the stories he is mentioning, because without reading the bible his version of the stories do not make sense. This might be said to be a literary criticism of the Quran. Which is poorly written and poorly constructed. The fact that nearly two billion people think this book is the words of God is a frightening thing.

But there are even more people who are Christians and their book is the original source of a lot of the horrors that you condemn about the Quran. You can't have it both ways Scorpion, either it's frightening that there are believers in both the Quran and the Bible or neither is actually the rot cause of your concern.

So which is it?

because it teaches them their half witted God curses anyone who does not believe in the mumblings of Muhammad, and he will burn and torture unbelievers forever. It teaches them to make war on unbelievers, and kill and maim them.

Also in the Bible. Why aren't you concerned about the number of people who believe the Bible is the word of god? Why just the Muslims?

As far as I am concerned Muhammad was an evil liar who frightened people with lurid descriptions of hell, the idea of which is another thing he stole from the bible.

Again, you could easily say the same about Jesus. Jesus said some absolutely horrific things. He stated that anyone who did not love him so much that compared to him his love for his family should feel like hate deserved to go to hell. That's horrific! But you're not making polemic threads worrying about Christianity are you? You're not running to neo-nazis to find things to use to hate on Christians, are you? Just the Muslims.

 

[Samson]

I do remember that.

Do you remember that most of their victims were other Muslims? And that their main beef was with those Muslims not reading their holy book the right way?

As with all other religions, their greatest enemies are those that believe the same faith slightly differently.

You have fallen into some conspiracy crap that somehow Muslims are no longer human and behave like some monolithic hive mind who all have but one goal.
And to reinforce that conspiracy you ignore that the Muslim faith, like all the others, is so vague as to be freely interpretable by anyone to say anything they want.

So, can you give an actual reason why Muslims are unable to do that, whereas the people believing in other faiths can? Because all faiths claim they are the direct words of their respective god(s) and should be fully obeyed.

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone would draw parallels between Islam and any other religion.
The Iranian state congratulating the attack on Salman Rushdie is one outlier that has no parallel in modern times
As one example.
Banning education and employment of women is another.
What planet are you all on?

 

[Samson]

Actually, who can explain to the Taliban they are being a trifle unfair to half the population they govern?

 

[Foster Zygote]

It is incomprehensible to me that anyone would draw parallels between Islam and any other religion.
The Iranian state congratulating the attack on Salman Rushdie is one outlier that has no parallel in modern times
As one example.
Banning education and employment of women is another.
What planet are you all on?

This planet. But we aren't limited to our immediate temporal environment, so we're looking at this planet and its history, not just our recent memory of events covered by our Western media. We also aren't wont to ignore the institutional horrors inflicted by other religious entities, like the Roman Catholic Church, even in modern times. Their sexual abuse scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. Look into their practices of Christianizing young Native American children in Canada, for example.

No one is arguing that Islam isn't riddled with disturbing teachings, just noting that those arguing it's worse are finding ways to make excuses for the same qualities in other religions.



I'm guessing you've given up in showing how Wollery misrepresented Scorpion.

 

[Cat Not Included]

Do what? If they thought for themselves they would not be Muslims.
If they are Muslims they believe every word of the Quran is from God.

There is no middle ground.

The followers of every religion that I'm aware of use parts of their texts to justify what they want to do, and disregard or rationalize parts they disagree with. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that members of Islam do any differently?

 

[catsmate]

You might like to read The Men Who Stare at Goats by Jon Ronson before starting a thread about a book by one of the architects of Project Stargate.

We had this in the books thread. Scorpion is not open to facts that contradict his beliefs.

Thanks, I am now retracting my previous offer to read criticisms of Russell Targ's books on account of them convincing me the science of the studies of remote viewing and telepathy was soundly conducted. That and the fact I have had personal experiences of ESP and telepathy so I know it is real. I cannot waste my time reading a stack of books by atheists and cynics when I know already that they are wrong and ESP exists.

 

[Pixel42]

That, of course, is the fundamental mistake that all woo believers make - thinking they can 'know' something based solely on subjective, error- and misinterpretation-prone experiences. The fact that the minimum standard of evidence required to convince a sceptic should also be the minimum standard of evidence required to convince them, and that anecdotes (and badly designed and conducted experiments) just don't meet it, always passes them by.

 

[Scorpion]

It's entirely possible that Spencer deleted your tweet..

No he didn't, I found it by searching twitter, It is still there, but It disappeared from my timeline.

I
If only you'd got through to "the Russians"... You might have been able to avert this whole dictator problem.

I pointed out to the Russian embassy in London that if Putin nuke us they will die too.

 

[Scorpion]

That, of course, is the fundamental mistake that all woo believers make - thinking they can 'know' something based solely on subjective, error- and misinterpretation-prone experiences. The fact that the minimum standard of evidence required to convince a sceptic should also be the minimum standard of evidence required to convince them, and that anecdotes (and badly designed and conducted experiments) just don't meet it, always passes them by.

I will save my comments on that until I start my prospective thread.
'The reality of ESP'.

 

[Pixel42]

I pointed out to the Russian embassy in London that if Putin nuke us they will die too.

Why on earth did you think they needed something as blindingly obvious as that to be pointed out to them?

 

[Scorpion]

Why on earth did you think they needed something as blindingly obvious as that to be pointed out to them?

I was responding to propaganda posted by them promoting Putin. I sent them a photo of Martin Luther King, on which I typed his quote.
"We must learn to live together as brothers, or perish together as fools"