Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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The Third Option restroom works if there’s a concerted social effort for lots of whitebread normal non weirdos to use them, otherwise what you get is de facto the men’s room, the women’s room, and the one for weirdos. Which can only be used without social discomfort by your dedicated Gonzo the Great types.

Unless a lot of people are using the third room, it’s essentially outing anyone who goes in.
 
Equality and Human Rights Commission has written to the Minister for Equalities on the issue of whether to clarify that "sex" in the Equality Act means "biological sex".

On balance, we believe that redefining ‘sex’ in EqA to mean biological sex would create rationalisations, simplifications, clarity and/or reductions in risk for maternity services, providers and users of other services, gay and lesbian associations, sports organisers and employers.
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Full letter can be found here:
https://equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/clarifying-definition-%E2%80%98sex%E2%80%99-equality-act
 
Lithrael said:
The Third Option restroom works if there’s a concerted social effort for lots of whitebread normal non weirdos to use them, otherwise what you get is de facto the men’s room, the women’s room, and the one for weirdos. Which can only be used without social discomfort by your dedicated Gonzo the Great types.

Unless a lot of people are using the third room, it’s essentially outing anyone who goes in.
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Anyone trans person who is not already outed by their appearance is probably using the toilet for the gender they identify as and no-one knows about it.
 
Lithrael said:
The Third Option restroom works if there’s a concerted social effort for lots of whitebread normal non weirdos to use them, otherwise what you get is de facto the men’s room, the women’s room, and the one for weirdos. Which can only be used without social discomfort by your dedicated Gonzo the Great types.
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My lastborn child is old enough to use the men's unsupervised nowadays but it wasn't so long ago I'd take him to the third option restroom whenever that was available. This was even more convenient when I had a young daughter, since I felt obligated (as a male who codes male) to stay out of the ladies.
 
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A study published today finds no association between gender social transition and mental health status amongst children and adolescents referred to GIDS.

Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?

"We assessed mental health correlates of living in one’s affirmed gender among 288 children and adolescents (208 birth-assigned female; 210 socially transitioned) and of name change in 357 children and adolescents (253 birth-assigned female; 214 name change). The presence or absence of mood and anxiety difficulties and past suicide attempts were clinician rated. "

"Overall, there were no significant effects of social transition or name change on mental health status"

(I think they should avoid the term 'effects' since it implies causation and this is a correlational study).
 
Very interesting data out of NZ today.

Otago University has been running a longitudinal study of NZ children from birth, with a cohort of children born in 2009. (My youngest is in the study) A lot of good information on everything from poverty to health has come out so far and it seems to be robustly organised.

The most recent results were the first where the children were asked about sexuality and they were asked to identify their gender.

15% of children chose an answer that wasn't boy or girl.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...g-sense-of-ethnic-gender-identity-study-shows
 
The Atheist said:
Very interesting data out of NZ today.

Otago University has been running a longitudinal study of NZ children from birth, with a cohort of children born in 2009. (My youngest is in the study) A lot of good information on everything from poverty to health has come out so far and it seems to be robustly organised.

The most recent results were the first where the children were asked about sexuality and they were asked to identify their gender.

15% of children chose an answer that wasn't boy or girl.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...g-sense-of-ethnic-gender-identity-study-shows
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Yes, I do not know the answer, but if we were asked back at school I would pick 0% in the confused category.
I might be wrong.
 
Samson said:
Yes, I do not know the answer, but if we were asked back at school I would pick 0% in the confused category.
I might be wrong.
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I'm not so sure. I attended an all-boys school and I know for a fact at least two of the boys went on to transition immediately they left, which was 1974.

The thing is, being non-binary is a recent option, and I'm sure a lot of kids who are seeing at as option rather than being what they really think.

As an aside, our boy who is part of the study decided a couple of years ago that he's gay. Male but gay. He has no doubts about his gender or sexuality.

At 14 I barely knew what sexuality was other than having a crush on my female English teacher.
 
Robin said:
To anyone else who is not familiar with Fox News, they are a very conservative station and there editorial line is very negative towards trans rights activists and very supportive of the gender critical activists.

This is the reason I thought it strange that they had not picked up on this incident.
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They're not actually supportive of gender critical views. They only support gender critical perspectives when they think they can leverage those cherry-picked items to strengthen their patriarchal and heteronormative bias.

We keep telling you guys that gender critical females and right-wing groups are not bedfellows, we're not even fellow travelers. We're two groups with orthogonal aims whose paths just happen to cross at one particular intersection.
 
Samson said:
Australian women's golf tournament won by male

https://100percentfedup.com/megyn-k...s-its-a-fraud-its-immoral-and-it-has-to-stop/
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How very brave and stunning!

And of course, how incredibly rare! We've been repeatedly told that this isn't a problem, there will never be enough transgender identified males who want to compete against females for this to be a problem ever, and if females object, we're simply overreacting and being hysterical bigots.

How many of these championships for females have now been won by males? I'm pretty sure that the males who win female competitions get more press for being brave and stunning than any female does for actually being extremely good at their sport.
 
smartcooky said:
Of course it is only a minority of the minority who will reject - most trans-women would be happy to use "neutral gender" facilities, that the minority of the minority are trying to leverage this issue - to force biologically female women who are NOT trans-gender to use the same toilets as them, to make a wider point about their acceptance. That another thing that tells you a lot about them.

Perhaps the only real answer is to remove ALL gender specific public toilets, and turn them into individual "unisex" units.
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Just so we're clear... that "minority of the minority" just happens to be all of the Transgender Advocacy Organization that I know of.

When all the groups who are supposed to be speaking for the 'rights' of this minority are saying the same thing... where does that leave us? If actual transgender people disagree with what these organizations are doing on their behalf, then they need to speak up.

Because regardless of whether you personally believe that this is a fringe view among transgender people... THIS is the view that is setting POLICY.
 
Lithrael said:
The Third Option restroom works if there’s a concerted social effort for lots of whitebread normal non weirdos to use them, otherwise what you get is de facto the men’s room, the women’s room, and the one for weirdos. Which can only be used without social discomfort by your dedicated Gonzo the Great types.

Unless a lot of people are using the third room, it’s essentially outing anyone who goes in.
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smartcooky, as previously mentioned - the idea of separate bathrooms so that females aren't forced to share intimate spaces with males gets rejected by advocates for the right of males to use female spaces based on their gendery souls.
 
Elaedith said:
A study published today finds no association between gender social transition and mental health status amongst children and adolescents referred to GIDS.

Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?

"We assessed mental health correlates of living in one’s affirmed gender among 288 children and adolescents (208 birth-assigned female; 210 socially transitioned) and of name change in 357 children and adolescents (253 birth-assigned female; 214 name change). The presence or absence of mood and anxiety difficulties and past suicide attempts were clinician rated. "

"Overall, there were no significant effects of social transition or name change on mental health status"

(I think they should avoid the term 'effects' since it implies causation and this is a correlational study).
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It seems like the cliff notes version is that non-clinical affirmation does NOT provide mental health improvement.
 
The Atheist said:
Very interesting data out of NZ today.

Otago University has been running a longitudinal study of NZ children from birth, with a cohort of children born in 2009. (My youngest is in the study) A lot of good information on everything from poverty to health has come out so far and it seems to be robustly organised.

The most recent results were the first where the children were asked about sexuality and they were asked to identify their gender.

15% of children chose an answer that wasn't boy or girl.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...g-sense-of-ethnic-gender-identity-study-shows
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That seems troubling to me.

I also find a very odd dichotomy with respect to the strength of identity in this study.

For example, when it comes to ethnic identities, they say this:
Research director and kaupapa Māori epidemiologist Dr Sarah-Jane Paine​ (Ngāi Tūhoe) said it was “exciting” to hear young people sharing how they saw themselves at this “important stage” of life.

...

Paine said a strong sense of identity, and feeling safe and secure in that identity, was important for wellbeing – including self-esteem, optimism, and the ability to respond to and cope with challenges.
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And yet... they also seem to be very happy to have a surprisingly large cohort of children to do NOT have a strong sense of identity, who are NOT safe and secure in their identity when it comes to gender.

So it ends up seeming like they WANT kids to have a really, really strong racial or ethnic association, but to have a weak sex association.

Honestly, this seems like it would be counterproductive. I might be missing something, but it seems like their goal is to strengthen ethnic divides while weakening children's comfort with their sexed bodies.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I'm pretty sure that the males who win female competitions get more press for being brave and stunning than any female does for actually being extremely good at their sport.
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I'm pretty sure Lance Armstrong's dramatic fall from grace was precipitated by his knowingly taking a measurably smaller advantage over his competition than that taken by folks like Lia Thomas.
 
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