• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hercules56 said:
You're joking, right?

Who is gonna deal with all the criminals if we get rid of the police?
Click to expand...

Note that it says "de-fund the police" not "de-fund policing". Policing would still occur just not using the current broken model that so frequently resembles a badly run military occupation more that it resembles actual police work.
 
Hercules56 said:
You never called 911? You would never call the cops if you needed help or to report a crime?
Click to expand...

I would call 911 id needed, but I'm not a black person living in a poor neighborhood where reporting a crime is likely to end up with an innocent person, possibly me, wrongly arrested or even killed by the police that respond.
 
If this thread isn't only about bad behavior, here's the bodycam footage of the Nashville cops taking down the school shooter. It's only available on Youtube and while I wouldn't describe it as at all graphic, it is intense. Great job by these heroic officers!
 
Brainster said:
If this thread isn't only about bad behavior, here's the bodycam footage of the Nashville cops taking down the school shooter. It's only available on Youtube and while I wouldn't describe it as at all graphic, it is intense. Great job by these heroic officers!
Click to expand...

That is the thing about the US system, with 18,000 organisations with police powers and about 12,000 actual independent police forces, there will organisations with a good culture.
 
jimbob said:
That is the thing about the US system, with 18,000 organisations with police powers and about 12,000 actual independent police forces, there will organisations with a good culture.
Click to expand...

I think the vast majority of cops I deal with are about as good as could be expected.

It's a matter of the police being connected to the community they serve. We can training this and oversight that and none of that is ever going to matter.


Although in the mass shooting context there is that this is the one bright spot w/r/t police militarization. They should get better at dealing with mass shooters and other dramatic violence. It's when they see mortal danger that isn't there that's the problem. Especially when they see the people as more a problem and less as neighbors.
 
Suddenly said:
I think the vast majority of cops I deal with are about as good as could be expected.

It's a matter of the police being connected to the community they serve. We can training this and oversight that and none of that is ever going to matter.


Although in the mass shooting context there is that this is the one bright spot w/r/t police militarization. They should get better at dealing with mass shooters and other dramatic violence. It's when they see mortal danger that isn't there that's the problem. Especially when they see the people as more a problem and less as neighbors.
Click to expand...

Similarly, there's also the concept that most cops will generally be acting or at least trying to be acting in line with what they believe they're supposed to be doing. It's just that, say, 100 good, professional actions don't really excuse even 1 crime in any decent profession, at last check. Nor do cops and others having far too commonplace and widespread an issue with turning a blind eye to wrongs being done by other cops help much.

It's totally fine to argue that cops do good work 99% of the time (questionable, of course, but that's generally the case with numbers pulled out one's wazoo). It's just no excuse for the wrongs that are actually done, nor a defense for the actual trends in play.
 
Last edited:
Ohio police recommend LGBTQ+ organizers cancel drag event, organizers refuse

On Thursday, Chester Township police chief Craig T. Young issued an official recommendation that LGBTQ+ organizers cancel a scheduled drag brunch and storytime event set to take place at the Community Church of Chesterland over the weekend.

In response, organizers instead announced plans to move forward with the event regardless of police presence, relying on private, hired security.

“In order to protect all involved, the children attending, and the residents of Chester Township, law enforcement officials have made an official recommendation to the event organizer, and the Community Church of Chesterland to cancel this event,” Young said in a written statement released Thursday morning, citing “a realistic threat that organized protests and counter-protests could result in violence.”
Click to expand...

In a written statement, organizer Mallory McMaster — president of The Fairmount Group, a Chardon-based firm that produces LGBTQ+ and social justice events — said police cited violent social media rhetoric, the possible presence of designated hate groups and the recent mass killing at a private school in Nashville, Tennessee, as potential safety concerns during the meeting, but offered few specifics.

“Most of the meeting was spent talking about money,” McMaster said in a statement co-signed by Community Church of Chesterland leaders and Element 41 owner and head chef Paul Mendolera. “Our organizers were asked how police officials could justify to their trustees such a large expenditure to keep the LGBTQ community safe. We ask, how can you justify denying an expenditure keeping the LGBTQ community safe?”
Click to expand...

“Maybe the police should tell the Proud Boys not to come instead of telling the gays to hide,” McMaster said.
Click to expand...

These people have every right to organize and run this event! Maybe the fascist police should do their jobs instead of siding with other fascists!
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I work for a police force, calling the US's imitation of one an army of military occupation is not an innacurate statement. They are kitted out as military personnel use military tactics and their mission is most definitely not to serve the public trust and protect the people.
Click to expand...

You work for an Irish police force, not an American police force. Your post is an opinion and nothing more...which you are entitled to. However, out of curiosity, just how much interaction have you had with any American police? I don't think it's a stretch to suspect your opinion is based on what you see on TV which is going to be negative as that's what makes the news. After all, how much of the everyday American police work that is done are you familiar with? Things like this:

Police cam shows officer saving baby's life:



or Bodycam video captures moment police discover 3 children lost in woods


or Bodycam Shows Police Rescuing Kidnapped Child in Atlanta

 
Stacyhs said:
You work for an Irish police force, not an American police force. Your post is an opinion and nothing more...which you are entitled to. However, out of curiosity, just how much interaction have you had with any American police? I don't think it's a stretch to suspect your opinion is based on what you see on TV which is going to be negative as that's what makes the news. After all, how much of the everyday American police work that is done are you familiar with? Things like this:

Police cam shows officer saving baby's life:



or Bodycam video captures moment police discover 3 children lost in woods


or Bodycam Shows Police Rescuing Kidnapped Child in Atlanta

Click to expand...

Yes, I work for a police force that actually does its duty.
 
Stacyhs said:
That is not an argument that supports your claims; it's just an irrelevant retort. You're entitled to your opinion, even if it's based on ignorance.
Click to expand...


What you seem to be trying to sweep under the rug is that the issue isn't when the cops do something well, it's when they do something evil.

Giving them kudos for doing their job is fine, even though most people don't expect to be put on pedestals for doing what they are paid to do. But the fact that cops misusing their positions of authority, acting like outright bigots and racists, welcoming graft, condoning corruption, reveling in the abuse of people in their custody ... all of these and more are the problem.

And the frequency of such occurrences is not a defense either. What percentage do you think is okay? How many illegal arrests, beating, or murders should we condone or just overlook in our efforts to defend the cops?

This doesn't even address the problem of the 'blue wall of silence', with the so-called 'good cops' refusing to report the bad acts of other officers, much less outright obstruction of investigations into them. In my opinion they are every bit as guilty as the bad actors they are covering for.

How many 'good cops' does that leave us with? And how many remain cops after they have done their duty instead of covering for their buddies?
 
I've (white guy, of course) always had acceptable interactions with US police, even when they were applying the bracelets (minor crap). [emoji12]
But the US is horribly slow to change and progress. While I'd say our cops are better than 40 years ago, the problems are systemic and even worse in some spots.

As I type this, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department is on the verge of being virtually dismantled and rebuilt because it's been found nearly every officer is a member of the dept's six or seven internal 'gangs'. Often along racial lines.
Bad conduct (some violently criminal), tattoos, cover-ups... the whole shebang. [emoji15]
 
bruto said:
I'm not sure anyone is really complaining that only the bad cops make the news, only that, just as we don't conclude that all houses burn down, we don't conclude that all cops are bad.

Too many cops are bad, and the news is important, but the fact that there is great significance to a bad minority does not make the majority bad. And yes, the mutual protection of bad cops by others is also bad, and ought to be addressed and stopped, but it's an overstatement to make a blanket suggestion that all US cops are militarized monsters. There's a great need for police reform all over the place but there are plenty of times also when they're just what we need.

I do find it odd how often we hear bad cops being excused as "rotten apples," to stress their minority, and often, it seems, to say we should tolerate them, while disregarding the whole point of the old maxim about one rotten apple spoiling the barrel. Rotten apples, however great their minority, need to be removed.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. I agree with you 100%. Well said.
 
Stacyhs said:
You work for an Irish police force, not an American police force. Your post is an opinion and nothing more...which you are entitled to. However, out of curiosity, just how much interaction have you had with any American police? I don't think it's a stretch to suspect your opinion is based on what you see on TV which is going to be negative as that's what makes the news. After all, how much of the everyday American police work that is done are you familiar with? Things like this:

Police cam shows officer saving baby's life:



or Bodycam video captures moment police discover 3 children lost in woods


or Bodycam Shows Police Rescuing Kidnapped Child in Atlanta

Click to expand...

Or the kid who was abandoned in Philadelphia by her mom because the police took her away and beat the mom, then paraded the kid in front of cameras to show how great they were.

That is a problem going by police press releases.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And of course cops who sweep their coworkers crimes under the rug are not actually bad cops.
Click to expand...

Who has said that? Certainly not me.

If they were you would have to say the vast majority of cops are bad. Things like turning off body cameras so that it doesn't capture a coworker beating someone does not make them a bad cop.
Click to expand...

Would you like to present some evidence that "the vast majority of cops" do that? What you're doing here is inventing your own 'facts'.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And how outrageous that those cops got convicted for murder just because they stood around watching while their training officer murdered someone. Not bad cops themselves.
Click to expand...

Your sarcastic responses are dishonest because no one had said that. In fact, Bruto said this, which I then I agreed with:

And yes, the mutual protection of bad cops by others is also bad, and ought to be addressed and stopped, but it's an overstatement to make a blanket suggestion that all US cops are militarized monsters.
Click to expand...

Stop putting words in people's mouths, especially when they've said the opposite.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom