Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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BTW, regarding events in Auckland (and in Canberra & Melbourne): Of course I deplore physical violence of any sort. I think the Auckland rally got completely out of hand (there seemed to be far too low a police presence, and Keen-Minshull's security operation was clearly woefully inadequate for the situation).

I think the person who poured soup/ketchup over Keen-Minshull should be charged with a (albeit minor) criminal offence, as should the thug who appears to have punched the older woman (though the footage does appear to show the woman walking in to confront the assailant).

But it's rather interesting to note that the event has got the non-publicity it deserves throughout global mainstream media. Not one iota of a mention on the BBC website, nor the Guardian.

Even the Mail - which has previously enthusiastically supported Keen-Minshull as part of its anti-transgender agenda - appears to have had enough of the bigot: the write-up in the Mail online now refers to her as a "trans critic" and a "transphobe" (as opposed to the previous Trojan-Horse descriptor of "women's rights campaigner", refers directly to the fact that "men in Nazi clothing" joined her - on her side - for the rally (and indeed were responsible for a good deal of the violence that ensued), and downplays the hyperbolised "my kids would be left without a mother" stuff in favour of reporting the facts - that Keen-Minshull was forced to leave the stage and cancel the rally.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-protestors-Auckland-New-Zealand-rally.html


I also noticed that the usual suspects on social media jumped in with both feet when the saw a hand at Keen-Minshull's neck amid the fracas, and a "shiny object" in the vicinity of her neck as well. They shrieked about trans-activists disgracefully grabbing Keen-Minshull by the throat and holding a knife to her neck. Turned out that the hand around her neck belonged to one of her own security people, and the object turned out to be a mobile phone.

One other interesting point: once Keen-Minshull had arrived and the trans-supporting crowd (who hugely outnumbered the miserable congregation of anti-transgender allies) were making all the noise, she completely lost control of herself and started screaming profanity-laden invective at someone in the crowd. She screamed repeatedly "You! This is your fault! You told everyone I was a ******* Nazi, you lying piece of ****** You ******* liar!" I **suspect** that might possibly have fanned the flames of the situation (together with the presence of actual Nazis who were there in support of Keen-Minshull...).

I'm glad that Australia and New Zealand saw Keen-Minshull for who she really is: an extreme right-wing agitator, who welcomes the support of extremist far-right politicians, hate groups and religious zealots. In broad terms (and absolutely not to excuse the violence and assaults at the Auckland rally), she got exactly what she deserved. Nasty piece of work.
 
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In passing, re Keen-Minshull: the debacle in Canberra pretty much sums up what Keen-Minshull is and what she represents:

Firstly, the tragi-comic "start" of the rally - when Keen-Minshull looked out to the pathetic little group of stragglers with their pathetic little Suffragette accessories, standing there miserably in the drizzle (with the large, enthusiastic and vocal trans-supporting group in the background), and asked a helper to let her know when the clock reached the notified start time, to be told that this was indeed the start time.... and Keen-Minshull's despondency at having to launch into her bigoted rhetoric to such an embarrassing "audience"....

....then to Keen-Minshull welcoming to the microphone Pauline Hanson: one of the most odious extreme-right-wing politicians in the developed world (and Keen-Minshull was obviously somewhat besotted with Hanson and her political party - One Nation - because she posed on the same day for a smiling group photo with Hanson and her fellow bigot politician Malcolm Campbell)....

...then Keen-Minshull aggressively shutting down - and reducing to bewilderment and tears - one of the women speakers who described how a transgender friend of hers had suffered because of her problems in getting appropriate medical treatment...

...then having her "security" people join the police in physically assaulting the only Aboriginal-ethnicity politician in the Australian federal parliament, leaving the woman on her hands and knees in the mud (prompting a social media blizzard of disgusting mockery and glee - which appears to have been enthusiastically endorsed by most of the higher-profile anti-transgender campaigners)...

Yes, it was one great big fiasco, and one which exposed Keen-Minshull for what she is and what she stands for. I'm glad she's got her comeuppance. Voices like hers are not welcome in this debate.
 
Matthew Best said:
Really? Can you quote her saying that?
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Uhh... well, you know her very opening gambit, when she stated that only (cis) women* can menstruate? That bit, for example.


* Because some trans men menstruate as well. And in denying the notion that some trans men also menstruate, she literally is denying that transgender identity is a real thing.
 
Samson said:
Except If you redact her provenance every word she says is true and cautionary.
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Utter rubbish.

She is OPPOSED to ANY rights for people who are anything other than straight and white.

She opposes rights for trans people
She opposes rights for gay people
She opposes same sex marriage

In this country, if you find yourself on the same side on any issue as that greasy scumbag Brian Tamaki and his Destiny Church, then you are on the wrong side!
 
LondonJohn said:
Uhh... well, you know her very opening gambit, when she stated that only (cis) women* can menstruate? That bit, for example.


* Because some trans men menstruate as well. And in denying the notion that some trans men also menstruate, she literally is denying that transgender identity is a real thing.
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So, no quote then?
 
Re the Nazi crashing the protest in Melbourne, the organising MP, Moria Deeming, escaped expulsion from the Party Room, and will be suspended for six months. Mind you, either penalty is barely a slap on the wrist with a feather. Deeming would keep her seat in any case, would attend parliament, engage in debates and vote on divisions. She just can’t attend the Party Room, which given the decimation of the Libs in Victoria and NSW and it’s complete irrelevance, this is a blessing in disguise.

The real issue is that Opposition Leader Pesutto has had his authority completely undermined and will soon be dumped I believe.

A satisfactory outcome as Deeming did not invite the Nazis and condemned their attendance.
 
d4m10n said:
We can only make weak inferences from the banner these folks had gathered under in order to oppose free speech.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
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A lot of people seem to be making strong inferences about this.

I hope the police find him and charge him.
 
lionking said:
Re the Nazi crashing the protest in Melbourne, the organising MP, Moria Deeming, escaped expulsion from the Party Room, and will be suspended for six months. Mind you, either penalty is barely a slap on the wrist with a feather. Deeming would keep her seat in any case, would attend parliament, engage in debates and vote on divisions. She just can’t attend the Party Room, which given the decimation of the Libs in Victoria and NSW and it’s complete irrelevance, this is a blessing in disguise.

The real issue is that Opposition Leader Pesutto has had his authority completely undermined and will soon be dumped I believe.

A satisfactory outcome as Deeming did not invite the Nazis and condemned their attendance.
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Posie Parker attracts Neo-Nazis, religious fanatics, white supremacists and other far-right nutcases everywhere she speaks. Even the Village Idiot can figure out why that is. Her problem with public perception is that she never, ever denounces them. This is hardly surprising because...

a. They epitomize everything she stands for, and

b. If they didn't show up, she would have no audience.

There is an old German saying which is generally vocalized as... "Ein Nazi an einem Tisch mit neun anderen im Gespräch, macht einen Tisch aus zehn Nazis" which loosely translates as "if there's a Nazi at the table and nine other people talking to him, you've got a table with 10 Nazis"
 
smartcooky said:
Posie Parker attracts Neo-Nazis, religious fanatics, white supremacists and other far-right nutcases everywhere she speaks. Even the Village Idiot can figure out why that is. Her problem with public perception is that she never, ever denounces them. This is hardly surprising because...

a. They epitomize everything she stands for, and

b. If they didn't show up, she would have no audience.

There is an old German saying which is generally vocalized as... "Ein Nazi an einem Tisch mit neun anderen im Gespräch, macht einen Tisch aus zehn Nazis" which loosely translates as "if there's a Nazi at the table and nine other people talking to him, you've got a table with 10 Nazis"
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Your lack of doubt is enviable. Here others are interested in some nuance, you and Atheist are sure footed as mountain goats.
Congratulations.
 
smartcooky said:
Posie Parker attracts Neo-Nazis, religious fanatics, white supremacists and other far-right nutcases everywhere she speaks. Even the Village Idiot can figure out why that is. Her problem with public perception is that she never, ever denounces them. This is hardly surprising because...

a. They epitomize everything she stands for, and

b. If they didn't show up, she would have no audience.

There is an old German saying which is generally vocalized as... "Ein Nazi an einem Tisch mit neun anderen im Gespräch, macht einen Tisch aus zehn Nazis" which loosely translates as "if there's a Nazi at the table and nine other people talking to him, you've got a table with 10 Nazis"
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I was not talking about Posie Parker.
 
For most of what Rowling says, it isn't so much transphobic as completely bonkers.

Take this:
J.K. Rowling said:
If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth.
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What does that mean?

What does "Sex is real" mean and can anyone supply a quote of someone denying it?

Can anyone give me any example of an impact on life it would have if sex wasn't "real", (whatever it means)?

Can anyone give me an example of some meaningful discussion of someone's life that would not be possible if sex wasn't "real" (again, in whatever sense she means it)?
 
By the way, the fact that our sexual attraction is "same sex" is only really significant to people who have a problem with it, ie homophobes.

To us it's just attraction.

We don't think that it makes us special people.

The whole "pride" thing is a reaction to all the people who want us to feel shame. If there were never such people then there would have been no "pride" movement.

"Identity politics" was a war started by the haters.
 
Robin said:
For most of what Rowling says, it isn't so much transphobic as completely bonkers.

Take this:


What does that mean?

What does "Sex is real" mean and can anyone supply a quote of someone denying it?

Can anyone give me any example of an impact on life it would have if sex wasn't "real", (whatever it means)?

Can anyone give me an example of some meaningful discussion of someone's life that would not be possible if sex wasn't "real" (again, in whatever sense she means it)?
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I think you are being deliberately obtuse. She made it clear she was referring to biological sex. There are trans rights groups (like Mermaids) which contend that biological sex is of little or no importance, and it is only the gender you identify with that has any real meaning.

Her comments are far from bonkers.
 
Robin said:
By the way, the fact that our sexual attraction is "same sex" is only really significant to people who have a problem with it, ie homophobes.

To us it's just attraction.

We don't think that it makes us special people.

The whole "pride" thing is a reaction to all the people who want us to feel shame. If there were never such people then there would have been no "pride" movement.

"Identity politics" was a war started by the haters.
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Why are you referring to same sex attraction? This thread is not and never has been about that. I know it hasn't stopped people bringing it up, but that is for another thread.
 
lionking said:
Why are you referring to same sex attraction? This thread is not and never has been about that. I know it hasn't stopped people bringing it up, but that is for another thread.
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In reference to the Rowling quote where she tried to beat up some vague threat to gays from the trans community by saying: "If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. "

So it is relevant.
 
lionking said:
She made it clear she was referring to biological sex.
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She would have made it clear if she had any reference to anyone.claiming biological sex isn't real. Otherwise, no.

OK so what does "biological sex is real" mean? Like "some people really do have penises and some really do have vaginas"? I'm not sure anyone is denying that.
There are trans rights groups (like Mermaids) which contend that biological sex is of little or no importance, and it is only the gender you identify with that has any real meaning.
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So not "sex isn't real" then?

So what about the rest of my questions?

Can anyone give me any example of an impact on life it would have if sex wasn't "real", (whatever it means)?

Can anyone give me an example of some meaningful discussion of someone's life that would not be possible if sex wasn't "real" (again, in whatever sense she means it)?
 
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