Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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LondonJohn said:
The Xenia Daily Gazette, huh?

It's almost as though there's a network of anti-transgender-identity activists who are spending a huge amount of time and effort searching the internet for stories which fuel their bigotry, then disseminating the stories to their equally-hungry fellow travellers. But that's probably just me overreaching, I'd imagine.
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What about either of those links, in your opinion, fuels bigotry?
 
LondonJohn said:
But you care an awful lot about the stuff that Barnes says which fits your agenda? Right?
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Barnes specifically? No, actually I don't really care what she has to say. I am interested in what the people who worked there say. And a pretty consistent picture of their operations has emerged, one in which a rush to treatment without taking the time to properly diagnose or inform patients became common. Are you trying to argue that this picture is wrong? If so, let's hear your basis for it.

Or perhaps you're trying to argue that Barnes is right that puberty blockers are fully reversible. In which case, what's the evidence for that? How can anyone have established this, when no one has actually looked?
 
LondonJohn said:
Gosh - I wonder how* you came across an article on an extremely minor cycling website about an extremely minor cycling event?


* I know exactly how.
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Okay, but what do you think about the content of the article? If you were speaking in person to one of the women who was upset about losing to a transwoman, what would you say? I doubt you would tell them that it was an extremely minor cycling event, to help them put it in perspective. Or, is that your stance, that this event isn't "elite" enough to merit fairness?
 
I'm confused by your post LondonJohn

LondonJohn said:
The Xenia Daily Gazette, huh?
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Is that a problem or a concern? The name of the town is Xenia. It's the local paper and probably the most primary source available for local news there. I'm sure the reporters are not as well paid as major news outlets, but i see no reason to think the reporting would be less accurate.

So what's your point?

It's almost as though there's a network of anti-transgender-identity activists who are spending a huge amount of time and effort searching the internet for stories which fuel their bigotry, then disseminating the stories to their equally-hungry fellow travellers. But that's probably just me overreaching, I'd imagine.
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There were two links in the post you quoted. One was a video in support of the trans-woman in question. The other was (by my admittedly quick skimming) a neutral account of the events at the trial published in the local paper. (Were it is probably significant news. Xenia has a population of around 25,000 according to wikipedia.)

Do you actually read/view things or do you just make assumptions about their content? Seriously, I don't see the link between the items cited in the quoted post and what you wrote.

ETA: This is just an update story that made national news in February. It's a relatively minor event that gets attention because the events relate to a controversial area of social change whose direction and details are still the subject of debate. So yes, small town news is as relevant a big town news.
 
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porch said:
Or, is that your stance, that this event isn't "elite" enough to merit fairness?
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I've been wondering about this myself. It's not exactly the Tour de France, but probably those ladies would've been even happier had they taken their rightful spots on the podium, not to mention the competitor who took fourth place among all qualified contestants and third amongst females.

porch said:
What about either of those links, in your opinion, fuels bigotry?
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I'd be interested in an answer to this as well, seeing as local reportage generally plays it straight.

LondonJohn said:
But that's probably just me overreaching, I'd imagine.
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Possibly; I used to live in Fairborn, OH and still get news alerts from that area.

(That said, the algorithm knows far more than where I've been.)
 
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Robin said:
I think if there are billionaires planning the entire dismantling of society we should be told.

The entire dismantling of society seems a pretty big deal. Who are these billionaires?
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This is probably referring to Jon Stryker, Tim Gill, and others mentioned in this piece by Elizabeth Johnston. (In the excerpt below there are asterisks bracketing sections of text; if you click the original piece, each of those are where the author included embedded links) https://elizabethjohnston.org/meet-the-billionaires-behind-the-transgender-industry/

E Johnston said:
[. . .]
“Today’s movement, however, looks nothing like that band of persecuted outcasts,” Bilek continues. “The LGBT rights agenda—note the addition of ‘T’—has become a powerful, aggressive force in American society. Its advocates stand at the top of media, academia, the professions, and, most important, Big Business and Big Philanthropy.”

Case in point: Jon Stryker. Jon is the grandson of Homer Stryker, an inventor and orthopedic surgeon who founded the Stryker Corporation, which*sold $13.6 billion*in surgical supplies and software in 2018 alone. Jon Stryker is the heir to the fortune, and he’s also a homosexual.

Beginning a lengthy career of pro-LGBT and environmentalist philanthropy, the younger Stryker created the Arcus Foundation, whose mission is “to ensure that LGBT people and our fellow apes thrive in a world where social and environmental justice are a reality.”

Among other causes, Arcus*gave more than $58.4 million*to pro-LGBT programs between 2007 and 2010 alone. Stryker himself gave over $30 million to Arcus in that three-year period through his inherited stock in Stryker Corporation.

We then follow the thread to Jon’s sister, Ronda Stryker. She is married to William Johnston, chairman of Greenleaf Trust, a wealth management firm where Jon Stryker served as a founding board member. Ronda is also the*vice-chair*of Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia, which received a*$2 million Arcus grant for a queer studies program. Johnston and Ronda Stryker have given Spelman $30 million overall, the largest gift from living donors in the school’s 137-year history. Ronda is also a trustee of Kalamazoo College, which received a*$23 million*Arcus social justice leadership grant in 2012, and a member of the Harvard Medical School Board of Fellows.

Bilek also notes that Pat Stryker, another sister of Jon’s, has worked closely with entrepreneur and gay megadonor Tim Gill. In 1999, Gill sold his stakes in Quark, his computer software company, and began the Gill Foundation. Alongside Pat Stryker and two other wealthy philanthropists, Gill funneled*half a billion dollars*into various LGBT “rights” groups and*launched a strategy*to flip Colorado from a red state to a blue state. It has enjoyed stunning success.

If Tim Gill’s name sounds familiar, it may be due to his infamous statement in a speech at the*2015 GLSEN Respect Awards*that he would “punish the wicked,” referring to people like Christian cake artist*Jack Phillips. In his speech, he was introducing Jon Stryker, saying that he and Jon have “plotted, schemed, hiked, and skied together,” while “punishing the wicked and rewarding the good.”
[. . .]
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Also some information here showing why so many of these policy changes were lobbied for/happened largely in stealth — it was done that way by design, so no one really had a chance to object or even to try to slow things down so we could hash out some details.

https://archive.ph/2asrt

James Kirkup said:
[. . .]
I’m not going to tell you what I think of the report, or the agenda it sets out. I’m not going to pass comment on it or its authors. I’m just going to try to summarise its nature and contents.

A major international law firm has helped write a lobbying manual for people who want to change the law to prevent parents having the final say about significant changes in the status of their own children. That manual advises those lobbying for that change to hide their plans behind a ‘veil’ and to make sure that neither the media nor the wider public know much about the changes affecting children that they are seeking to make. Because if the public find out about those changes, they might well object to them. [. . .]
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LondonJohn said:
Do you think Keen-Minshull should have known who Pauline Hanson - one of the most infamous public figures in Australia, and someone who is extremely well-known (and well-exposed) for her hateful extremist right-wing views as the founder of the One Nation party - was, when she passed Hanson the microphone at her Canberra event and made no comment after Hanson finished speaking?
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Do you think it makes sense to attribute Hanson's views to Keen, because they shared a microphone on a stage?
 
d4m10n said:
Do you think it makes sense to attribute Hanson's views to Keen, because they shared a microphone on a stage?
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You don't seem to grasp the significance and implications of a political activist for a particular cause a) gladly platforming a politician who has prominent extreme right-wing views and b) posing for a smiling photo with two politicians who have prominent extreme right-wing views.


Are you genuinely that naive?
 
TomB said:
I'm confused by your post LondonJohn


Is that a problem or a concern? The name of the town is Xenia. It's the local paper and probably the most primary source available for local news there. I'm sure the reporters are not as well paid as major news outlets, but i see no reason to think the reporting would be less accurate.

So what's your point?


There were two links in the post you quoted. One was a video in support of the trans-woman in question. The other was (by my admittedly quick skimming) a neutral account of the events at the trial published in the local paper. (Were it is probably significant news. Xenia has a population of around 25,000 according to wikipedia.)

Do you actually read/view things or do you just make assumptions about their content? Seriously, I don't see the link between the items cited in the quoted post and what you wrote.

ETA: This is just an update story that made national news in February. It's a relatively minor event that gets attention because the events relate to a controversial area of social change whose direction and details are still the subject of debate. So yes, small town news is as relevant a big town news.
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Yeah.... you miss my point entirely. Was that accidental or deliberate on your part?
 
porch said:
Okay, but what do you think about the content of the article? If you were speaking in person to one of the women who was upset about losing to a transwoman, what would you say? I doubt you would tell them that it was an extremely minor cycling event, to help them put it in perspective. Or, is that your stance, that this event isn't "elite" enough to merit fairness?
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You're right, that wasn't my point. And kudos to the nutters - who I'd guess would be either unemployed or retired (or, in the case of Linehan, both), since they appear to have large reservoirs of free time in which to pursue their targeted bigotry - for digging up the report of this extremely minor event in an extremely minor newspaper.

But since you ask: I would say that I believe transgender people should be permitted to compete in the category that's congruent with their trans gender. The exceptions to this are either a) in the fields of elite and sub-elite categories* or b) where there is a reasonable risk of physical injury to cis participants in the course of competing in a particular sport**. So this particular cycling event - since it's neither at elite level nor an event where physical safety is an issue - should allow trans women to compete.

If the cis women who finished second and third in that minor event want to erase the trans woman and believe that they actually finished first and second, that's up to them. Likewise, if they want to lodge complaints with the event organiser (or indeed to the world cycling body UCI), they can go ahead and do so. My suspicion is that they won't get very far, for very good reasons.


* Elite and sub-elite categories are usually very easy to define for each sport (as indeed World Athletics has just done).

** A good example is women's rugby (both codes), and again World Rugby has taken the correct and appropriate steps to exclude trans women from all full-contact rugby.
 
Ziggurat said:
Barnes specifically? No, actually I don't really care what she has to say. I am interested in what the people who worked there say. And a pretty consistent picture of their operations has emerged, one in which a rush to treatment without taking the time to properly diagnose or inform patients became common. Are you trying to argue that this picture is wrong? If so, let's hear your basis for it.

Or perhaps you're trying to argue that Barnes is right that puberty blockers are fully reversible. In which case, what's the evidence for that? How can anyone have established this, when no one has actually looked?
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What about when the people who worked there say something that doesn't fit into your particular agenda? You don't like that very much, do you?

(And, by the way, I'd recommend the Cass Review (and related reports) for a properly-balanced point of view regarding the Tavistock. By contrast, Barnes' book is largely agenda-driven and very self-selecting in the people featured in the book. I wonder how/why she found it so difficult to find a publisher?)
 
d4m10n said:
Do you think it makes sense to attribute Hanson's views to Keen, because they shared a microphone on a stage?
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Obviously you are, then. Tant pis.

(Hint: all rational, objective people understand that if someone hosting a political rally gratefully platforms - and takes smiling group photos with - extremist right-wing bigot politicians, there are obvious inferences to be drawn.)
 
And we haven't even talked about "Let Women Speak" "Let Women Rant Against Transgender People" speakers posing for smiling selfies with neo-Nazis at the Melbourne rally.

(And, by the way, the neo-Nazis stated clearly that they were there to support Keen-Minshull and her disciples in their hate-fest against transgender people...)
 
LondonJohn said:
(Hint: all rational, objective people understand that if someone hosting a political rally gratefully platforms - and takes smiling group photos with - extremist right-wing bigot politicians, there are obvious inferences to be drawn.)
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Whenever I see someone platformed, I tend to limit my assumptions to the specific subject matter being platformed.

Do you think it makes sense to attribute Hanson's views to Keen, because they shared a microphone on a stage?
 
LondonJohn said:
(And, by the way, the neo-Nazis stated clearly that they were there to support Keen-Minshull and her disciples in their hate-fest against transgender people...)
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Hmmm. Well in this far-right write-up of the Melbourne protest, they don't seem that keen on Keen-Minshull at all - indeed, it sounds like the reason they turned up is to prevent the likes of her from dominating:
Both the groomer ideology of “trans” activists and the lesbianism promoted by Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull are forms of Liberalism directed by the Globohomo regime at White people in order to undermine White families, birthrates and social cohesion.
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Speaking plainly, grassroots movements which initially oppose Globohomo tend to be infiltrated and directed by, if not jews, then at least atheist radical feminists with funny sounding hyphenated surnames, who are at heart liberals who merely want to turn back the clock of Liberalism to 1993 or the 70’s or something.
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Dr Erica Anderson recommends reading Hannah Barnes' book.

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