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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Robin said:
So can anyone provide an example of an actual symptom of autism that has been or even might be mistaken for an actual symptom of GD?

Examples from Tavistock welcome.

Note: X is a co-morbidity of Y" does not mean "X can be mistaken for Y"
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Suggested form of answer:

".......... is an actual symptom of autism that has been/can be mistaken for ........ which is an actual symptom of GD."
 
Robin said:
Gender crit folk: "You refuse to talk about Tavistock"
Robin: "What is it about Tavistock that you would like me to talk about?"
Gender crit folk: --Silence---
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Tavistock has been covered comprehensively in this thread, but you don’t even need to search this forum. Just Google “Tavistock disgrace”.

Here’s the thing. Tavistock, as the monopoly provider of support to young (possibly) transgender people in the UK, was regularly cited as the authority in this area. Tavistock took an ultra affirmative approach and prescribed medication and other treatment to minors without parental consent. Puberty blockers were their go-to first level treatment with staff (criminally) asserting that the blockers were reversible and harmless. From 2010 to 2015, their figures show that almost 100% of these young people went on to irreversible hormone treatment. Their staff were indeed ideologically captured, and children were harmed and some died.

This house of cards fell down when ethical and determined whistle blowers brought about judicial investigations. Tavistock is now effectively defunct, but at a huge cost. The court cases are queuing up.

Yet requests for comments about Tavistock are ignored by people in this thread who choose to imagine that there have been and currently is no problems with affirmative (as a matter of policy) treatment of young people who question their gender identity.

One thing which may give you pause Robin is the evidence from said whistle blowers that some parents support their child’s transition because they would much prefer a trans child to a gay one.

When medical responses to transgender issues in the UK were exclusively managed by such a flawed body as Tavistock for so long, discussions about how and why this happened need to be asked. This is why Tavistock is so important. But what we have seen is the unwillingness many posters in this thread to deal with the damage done.
 
lionking said:
Tavistock has been covered comprehensively in this thread, but you don’t even need to search this forum. Just Google “Tavistock disgrace”.

Here’s the thing. Tavistock, as the monopoly provider of support to young (possibly) transgender people in the UK, was regularly cited as the authority in this area. Tavistock took an ultra affirmative approach and prescribed medication and other treatment to minors without parental consent. Puberty blockers were their go-to first level treatment with staff (criminally) asserting that the blockers were reversible and harmless. From 2010 to 2015, their figures show that almost 100% of these young people went on to irreversible hormone treatment. Their staff were indeed ideologically captured, and children were harmed and some died.

This house of cards fell down when ethical and determined whistle blowers brought about judicial investigations. Tavistock is now effectively defunct, but at a huge cost. The court cases are queuing up.

Yet requests for comments about Tavistock are ignored by people in this thread who choose to imagine that there have been and currently is no problems with affirmative (as a matter of policy) treatment of young people who question their gender identity.

One thing which may give you pause Robin is the evidence from said whistle blowers that some parents support their child’s transition because they would much prefer a trans child to a gay one.

When medical responses to transgender issues in the UK were exclusively managed by such a flawed body as Tavistock for so long, discussions about how and why this happened need to be asked. This is why Tavistock is so important. But what we have seen is the unwillingness many posters in this thread to deal with the damage done.
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How does this relate to any claim I have made here?

Are you making assumptions about my opinion that are not based on anything I have said?
 
And am I really supposed to find it plausible, on the basis of some hearsay, that there are parents who would hate to have a gay child but would be perfectly happy to have a trans child?
 
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Robin said:
And am I really supposed to find it plausible,bon the basis of some hearsay, that there are parents who would hate to have a gay child but would be perfectly happy to have a trans child?
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Pretty rich coming from someone who hasn’t bothered supporting personal anecdotes.

But you can have a look at the published findings about Tavistock. They are accessible.
 
I mean, just how large is tne population of trans accepting homophobes likely to be?
 
If the Tavistock whistleblowers are saying that kids are transitioning because their parents are trans accepting homophobes then it hardly says much for the credibility of the whistle blowers.

Or the credibility of anyone who would believe such a preposterous claim for that matter.
 
Robin said:
And am I really supposed to find it plausible, on the basis of some hearsay, that there are parents who would hate to have a gay child but would be perfectly happy to have a trans child?
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"Dad, I'm a Lesbian"

"No daughter of mine is going to be a Lesbian. We're going to make a red-blooded heterosexual trans man of you!"
 
Robin said:
If the Tavistock whistleblowers are saying that kids are transitioning because their parents are trans accepting homophobes then it hardly says much for the credibility of the whistle blowers.

Or the credibility of anyone who would believe such a preposterous claim for that matter.
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That would be preposterous. But it isn't what they are saying at all.
 
Robin said:
Gender crit folk: "You refuse to talk about Tavistock"
Robin: "What is it about Tavistock that you would like me to talk about?"
Gender crit folk: --Silence---
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It's been talked about at length already. You come in here without having read the thread, without knowing the stuff being discussed, and you want everyone else to rehash it all again for your convenience. You're doing what's called a fringe reset. Nobody is in the mood.
 
Robin said:
So you are saying Tucker Carlson Glenn Beck and Rita Panahi are not ideologues??. They are dispassionate speakers of reliable fact are they?

Jordan Peterson?
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You have nothing to offer but straw men.
 
Ziggurat said:
It's basically official policy in Iran. But it's also not what was happening at Tavistock.
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I wouldn't be quite confident about that. Here is a passage from Time to Think on point:
It would be wrong to assume that it was only LGB clinicians who were concerned about homophobia or inadequate exploration of young peoples' sexuality. Most [interviewees] have told me that homophobia was a problem, and particularly among the adolescent girls who were presenting in huge numbers.
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It's a recurring motif throughout the first half of the book, really. The basic gist is that some patients would rather pass as the opposite sex than be seen as a curiously effeminate male or masculine female.

ETA: More context via screengrab

75688dfe6401990b287e5ef39d978832.jpg
 
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Ziggurat said:
That would be preposterous. But it isn't what they are saying at all.
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Let me expand on this a bit.

In almost all cases, a diagnosis of gender dysphoria starts with a self-diagnosis. Kids think they're trans, they tell a parent or doctor they think they're trans, and then they get a diagnosis of being trans. But it generally starts with the child.

Children don't generally understand sexuality. Gay kids who get all these messages about being trans don't understand the distinctions between being trans and being gay, they can get confused, and some of them incorrectly conclude that they're trans. Then they tell a doctor they think they're trans. And the doctors often just agree, rather than pry into why the child thinks that and what else it could be. You're not supposed to do that, you're not supposed to challenge trans identity, only affirm it. To do otherwise gets you labelled as trying to do conversion therapy, even though there is no resemblance to gay conversion therapy. And then the doctors tell the parents stuff like, "do you want a living son or a dead daughter", and the parents acquiesce to medicalization out of fear. The parents aren't being homophobic, the doctors aren't being homophobic, but they can still end up treating a gay child as if they are trans because the child doesn't understand the difference and got confused.
 
Ziggurat said:
That would be preposterous. But it isn't what they are saying at all.
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This is how I got it from lionking. If you say that this is not what they are saying then OK. But even JK Rowling seems to think they are saying this.

lionking said:
One thing which may give you pause Robin is the evidence from said whistle blowers that some parents support their child’s transition because they would much prefer a trans child to a gay one.
Click to expand...
 
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