• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Drag Shows!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's why I think it will have originated in the gay-subculture, we don't have records of that apart from when it occasionally impinged on mainstream culture - usually in the courts.
I get the feeling it appeared as a description of stage cross dressing, of the "Charley's Aunt" sort, before it was applied to men off stage, but I could be mistaken, since it's clear that the origin is fuzzy. It probably doesn't matter, since what is important these days is what the term implies these days.
 
Puts Asexuals and Trans in a weird position though, doesn't it? Might make the "+" feel a bit like a minus if they get denied options.

That's been the stated goal of the LGB Alliance, a hate group masquerading as an LGB rights group. And they already seem a bit grumpy with the Bi's, too.
 
Puts Asexuals and Trans in a weird position though, doesn't it? Might make the "+" feel a bit like a minus if they get denied options.
I don't think one dickhead lesbian on TikTok joining in the wedge strategy is really going to be a problem.
 
That's been the stated goal of the LGB Alliance, a hate group masquerading as an LGB rights group. And they already seem a bit grumpy with the Bi's, too.
Yep, they are a central part of the wedge strategy and already starting hating on bisexuals. I'm just waiting to see how they are all going to start driving the wedge between the L and the G.
 
Quite a lot of of overlap between the gay and the theatre cultures of course.
 
The thing I find funny about the wedger position on the word "queer" is that they object on the basis that it used o be a hate word.

That's kinda the point on reclaiming words and symbols.

Meanwhile we all used to go around wearing the pink triangle. What do people think that used to stand for?
 
I know that it's not an absolute thing, and that different people will do drag for different reasons, but I really thought Drag Queening was parading an alter ego, more than play-acting. Most seem to adopt a permanent performing name and consistent persona, like it is something far more developed than throwing on a dress.

ETA: Although I guess the same could be said of a ventriloquist who has a consistent personality for his puppet, or an actor playing the same role in a series

And the same could be said of a rock musician, or a stage illusionist. Or any kind of performer for that matter. Take John Wayne as a case study.
 
Last edited:
No. The word's meaning has changed from meaning a homosexual to now meaning someone who to paraphrase others "describes a sexual orientation that does not conform to societal norms and does not match conventional labels like gay, lesbian, or bisexual." (Some also say the Q can stand for "questioning".) To me it sounds like an excuse to hang out with the cool LGBTers! ;)
It never had a definitely negative connotation. Jack Kerouac used it in a neutral way (he would use "fairy" when he I tended an insult.). Or take the way David Bowie used it in "Five Years".

I don't think the current campaign to re-weaponise it as an insult is particularly useful.
 
It never had a definitely negative connotation. Jack Kerouac used it in a neutral way (he would use "fairy" when he I tended an insult.). Or take the way David Bowie used it in "Five Years".

I don't think the current campaign to re-weaponise it as an insult is particularly useful.

It was a word my grandmother was happy to use as in “There’s nowt as queer as folk” or queer to mean a shady or a criminal, so her saying “He’s queer” was not a comment about someone’s sexuality! :)
 
It was a word my grandmother was happy to use as in “There’s nowt as queer as folk” or queer to mean a shady or a criminal, so her saying “He’s queer” was not a comment about someone’s sexuality! :)
It's a word I used to use in that sense in my childhood. Like "something queer is happening here". I have also heard it as in "Don't queer the pitch"

I never heard the gay connotations until my teens, but it has been used in that sense at least since the 1940s, usually as a noun. As I first heard it via David Bowie and Jack Kerouac I never thought of it as an insult at first. People called me "poof" or "poofta" but not "queer". I remember the first time the bullies called me "poofta" I had to ask them what it meant and one of them mimed anal sex on the other bully which made all of us laugh and defused the whole situation. I wish they had all been that harmless.
 
//Slight hijack in the opposite direction//

"Straight" was a common enough term growing up in the American Southeast to mean "Not a criminal" (think a shortening of "Straight Shooter" or "on the straight and narrow") to the point that you can find "Crooks and straights" or similar terms to mean "criminals and everyone else" in country song as recently as into the mid-90s.
 
Last edited:
//Slight hijack in the opposite direction//

"Straight" was a common enough term growing up in the American Southeast to mean "Not a criminal" (think a shortening of "Straight Shooter" or "on the straight and narrow") to the point that you can find "Crooks and straights" or similar terms to mean "criminals and everyone else" in country song as recently as into the mid-90s.

And also "straight" as in someone who doesn't take drugs, or someone who is a bit of a conformist. Similarly "bent" could mean criminal, gay or just any sort of transgressive behaviour.
 
Thougs my all time favorite drag routine is Jack Lemnon and Tony Curtis in "Some Like It Hot".
 
I think I know where EC is coming from, although I disagree with her about how "woman" has been hijacked. For many years I didn't like the label "man" because of what the label meant in my society - it was as I know you are aware a very restrictive label - what you could be as a "man" was proscribed and woe betide anyone male going outside the boundaries. I remember when just getting one ear pierced called your right to be a "man" in question, wear anything pink and well you were queer. These days that "man" label is rightfully described as "toxic masculinity". That does not mean I ever considered myself anything but male, in regard to pronouns I have always hated the gay "tradition" of referring to other male homosexuals as "she", I know where it came from but it never sat well with me.
It kind of implies the existence of "toxic femininity" too, doesn't it?

I know a LOT of gay and lesbian people who absolutely do NOT prefer the term.
And I know a LOT of gay and lesbian people who do! My personal anecdote is exactly as good as yours.

Slight sidetrack here but since we're digressing on the appropriateness of terms and providing personal anecdotes, I had a conversation with a couple of friends of mine recently. They happen to be a married gay male couple, and I have known them for many years. I was talking about donating blood products at the Red Cross, and how they are no longer concerned if you've recently had a tattoo.

One of my friends said "They still don't like poofters though, right?" (to which I answered "yeah, they still don't like poofters.")

For those who either are not Australian or maybe haven't seen a certain Monty Python sketch, "poofter" or "poof" was once considered a very derogatory term for a gay man. And a gay man used it in my presence to refer to himself. Does that mean that I should feel free to use the term to refer to any particular gay man? No, it doesn't. Was it appropriate for me to use in that moment? Sure.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that some people are okay with referring to people who aren't on the cishet part of the spectrum as "queer" and some aren't. If in doubt, it's always better to check.
 
[imgw=800]https://robinsrevision.files.wordpress.com/2023/03/image-7.png?w=959[/imgw]
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom