Drag Shows!!

[Emily's Cat]

Yes, you've argued that ad nauseum.

Parody: "an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect."

COMIC effect. That is what comedy is.

None of which makes it immune from being offensive or insulting.

Seriously, minstrel actors dressed and performed in a deliberately exaggerated fashion for COMIC effect too. That didn't make it any less offensive.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I see that Tennessee’s governor has just signed their “anti-drag” bill into law… Interestingly set to go into effect right before that state’s well-attended Pride Week….

Photos of the governor dressed as a cheerleader surfaced a couple of days ago, but he dismisses this as being “lighthearted” and not the same thing…..

These laws are stupid, and I am inclined to think that they're an egregious violation of constitutional rights. I expect them to be challenged.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Nope the question remains "Why then is it so important to protect the privilege of actors to play a character?"

Why do you think performers should be banned - like the legislation is doing - from playing certain characters?

I don't think drag should be banned. FFS, I've said that multiple times now.
Blackface isn't banned, nor do I think it should be.

I do, however, think that it is worthwhile to alter public perception of drag shows, in the same way that public perception of minstrel shows changed. I want to raise awareness and consideration of the negative impact those depictions have on females.

 

[Darat]

Observation and impression. And as I keep saying, I'm open to authoritative correction.

You was given that for RuPaul i.e. his own words and how he lives his life as a man who does a drag performance, you have decided to ignore it.

 

[Darat]

I don't think drag should be banned. FFS, I've said that multiple times now.
Blackface isn't banned, nor do I think it should be. …snip..

Glad we agree that you were asking the wrong question. The question was always whether someone should be allowed to perform whatever character they wish.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Glad we agree that you were asking the wrong question. The question was always whether someone should be allowed to perform whatever character they wish.

Darat, stop doing this. Don't tell me what my question is. You have no insight into my mind, and you don't have ******* ESP. So stop already.

I am asking a very specific question, for a very specific reason. You keep whitewashing it and changing it into something else entirely.

This is tantamount to someone taking a position that children's athletics should be parsed by age group... and having someone else insist that they should be open to anyone. When the original claimant asks "why is it important to you to protect the privilege of adults who wish to compete against children", their opponent then insists that the real question is "whether people should be allowed to play sports".

It's disingenuous and it's a strawman.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Didn't you say RuPaul identified as a woman?

" and like virtually all women, no he is not wearing full makeup and heels while watching Netflix."

"Are you familiar at all with RuPaul? He has very famously said "call me a he, or call me a she", and for most of his Drag Race shows, he started by saying "Gentlemen, start your engines, and may the best woman win" "I have a hard time thinking that guys who dedicate so much of their lives to presenting as women do not have it hard wired as part of who they are.
"I dunno, man. The Drag Story Hour group was cited upthread saying that drag queens were "queer identities".

No , I very clearly did not. I asked you how sure you were about how he identifies. My impression is that he is some variety of gender fluid, which is what I think drag queens are "about". Reread the posts you are criticizing in that light and you may feel a little less adversarial.

I would say "clearly" is not the correct word. You asked and I answered: "Yes, as a gay man. If he identified as a woman, do you think he'd be married to a GAY man?"
As for rereading your posts in 'that light' I defer to Darat's comment:

You was given that for RuPaul i.e. his own words and how he lives his life as a man who does a drag performance, you have decided to ignore it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, as a gay man. If he identified as a woman, do you think he'd be married to a GAY man?

In complete honesty, YES. RuPaul would still be male, regardless of how they identify. Their spouse is male, regardless of how either they or RuPaul identify. That makes both of them gay.

RuPaul would still be biologically male but but his identity would be that of a woman. As a 'woman' why would he marry a man who is attracted to men? It makes no more sense than a cisgender woman marrying a gay man.

If RuPaul were to turn around tomorrow and say "No, I'm not a gay man, I'm a transwoman" that does NOT change the sexuality of their spouse.

Did I say it did change the sexuality of their spouse? Of course it wouldn't. I think that's obvious.

Their spouse is still a gay male, as is RuPaul.

His spouse would still be a gay male, but RuPaul would not be: he'd be a trans woman. His spouse, as a gay male, would still be attracted to men, not to a transwoman.

What set of stereotypes they feel most comfortable with doesn't alter the reality of their sexual orientation.

Unless a transwoman is also a lesbian, she'd most likely be attracted to heterosexual men.

 

[Emily's Cat]

RuPaul would still be biologically male but but his identity would be that of a woman. As a 'woman' why would he marry a man who is attracted to men?

Because sexual orientation is based on sex, not on a subjective internal identity about what set of gender roles one is more aligned with.

Because no matter what they might claim, RuPaul would be a 'woman', not a woman - they would still remain a male. A male that is sexually attracted to males, and whose spouse is male.

 

[Thermal]

You was given that for RuPaul i.e. his own words and how he lives his life as a man who does a drag performance, you have decided to ignore it.

Wait, what? I just went back three pages and nothing of the kind "was I given". His own words were only the ones I quoted ("call me a he, call me she"). Nothing else I see.

And by what standard are you saying he is "living his life as a man"? You've provided nothing but bald assertion and referencing his attire. Are you basing that he is "living as a man" strictly on his clothes? Cuz in context of the thread, that would be really funny.

 

[Thermal]

I would say "clearly" is not the correct word. You asked and I answered: "Yes, as a gay man. If he identified as a woman, do you think he'd be married to a GAY man?"

Why not, exactly? Why couldn't a biological male identify his gender as a woman, and be attracted to other men? Seems a bit puritanical to say he couldn't do so.

As for rereading your posts in 'that light' I defer to Darat's comment:

And see my response above. Where was it already posted that he says he identifies as a man, that I am "deciding to ignore"?

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh, lord. I give up.

 

[Robin]

I did! I did see a hairy bald man with a bald wig on.

 

[Thermal]

Stacyhs. I just caught your arguments with EC, and I confess that I'm s bit stunned at your interpretation of relationships. Like, flat flabbergasted.

So...serious question for you: who would a partner for a man who identifies as a woman be?

And think it through. A man identifies as a woman. You seem to think he would be into...what, a straight guy? Said straight guy would look down and see the schlong and explain "GTFOOH, I'm straight, dude".

So would a man who identifies as a woman choose a woman? Only if he identifies as a lesbian, which is not claimed and poses further conundrums anyway, from the actual woman's point of view.

The only option for a man who identifies as a woman would be a gay man. What other option do you see that makes orientation sense for both parties?

I mean, if a guy thinks he's a woman, and tries.to hook up with a woman who thinks she's a guy, they wouldn't find each other attractive, orientation wise. They would both have to identify as the opposite gender as what they are, and both be gay in their respective identities. Which kind of makes them a highly confused straight couple.

 

[Robin]

How many possible hairy bald men in hairy bald wigs standing in doorways are there?

 

[dudalb]

I see that Tennessee’s governor has just signed their “anti-drag” bill into law… Interestingly set to go into effect right before that state’s well-attended Pride Week….

Photos of the governor dressed as a cheerleader surfaced a couple of days ago, but he dismisses this as being “lighthearted” and not the same thing…..

First Amendment challneges coming in 3...2..1....

 

[dudalb]

Fully expecitng somebody to do a drag show in downtown Nashville just to set up a legal challegne to this stupid law.
Come to think of it, this was the scenario for the Scopes Monkey Trial in Tennesee...

 

[dudalb]

I see that Tennessee’s governor has just signed their “anti-drag” bill into law… Interestingly set to go into effect right before that state’s well-attended Pride Week….

Photos of the governor dressed as a cheerleader surfaced a couple of days ago, but he dismisses this as being “lighthearted” and not the same thing…..

I saw that photo.
Money Python did the drag bit much much better then the Governor.

 

[dudalb]

Glad we agree that you were asking the wrong question. The question was always whether someone should be allowed to perform whatever character they wish.

Pretty much yes.
One exception might be where fictional charecters under copyright are involved, but even there you have "Fair Usage".

 

[Darat]

Darat, stop doing this. Don't tell me what my question is. You have no insight into my mind, and you don't have ******* ESP. So stop already.



I am asking a very specific question, for a very specific reason. You keep whitewashing it and changing it into something else entirely.



This is tantamount to someone taking a position that children's athletics should be parsed by age group... and having someone else insist that they should be open to anyone. When the original claimant asks "why is it important to you to protect the privilege of adults who wish to compete against children", their opponent then insists that the real question is "whether people should be allowed to play sports".



It's disingenuous and it's a strawman.

Why then, is it so important to protect the privilege of males to wear a caricatured costume of females for entertainment purposes?