Electric universe theories here.

[Sol88]

I think Sol88 is lost, somehow.
He drops stuff in this thread, and then wants it explained.
And he makes EU claims, and then attacks them as if we made those claims (like the ginormous power cable or whatever).

I’m assuming you’ve read some of the papers you’ve linked to?

Those outgoing positive flux tubes seem to have nested negative flux tubes in side. The centre of which is force free electron current.

Like Don Scott has mentioned and did some maths on too. I believe some people had a problem with alpha and no boundary or some such. Well...

Seems there are “lots” of them. Nested bundles of flux tubes.

When these things reconnect....

 

[Sol88]

Seems like the solar wind is only quasi neutral if you go to the scales oh MHD, otherwise structure all the way down....

Electric fields, including double layers, funnily enough.

 

[jonesdave116]

Do you think Alvfen may like access to update his initial thoughts?


He’s still on the money considering...

He got some of the detail wrong on the interaction, but it was basically sound. And it does not require the solar wind to be a current! As he said, that is impossible. And he certainly never changed his mind on that.

 

[jonesdave116]

Seems like the solar wind is only quasi neutral if you go to the scales oh MHD, otherwise structure all the way down....

Electric fields, including double layers, funnily enough.

Nope, it is quasi-neutral by definition, as it has to be. The definition, that is, of those with a clue. Unlike clueless EEs.

 

[jonesdave116]

I’m assuming you’ve read some of the papers you’ve linked to?

Those outgoing positive flux tubes seem to have nested negative flux tubes in side. The centre of which is force free electron current.

Where the hell did anyone say that? You don't understand what you are reading. Why would you? Just accept that and move on.

 

[Sol88]

Where the hell did anyone say that? You don't understand what you are reading. Why would you? Just accept that and move on.

Got a new term for you Evershed flows and counter Evershed flows

Just brushing up now as they seem to have relevance for
Switchbacks in the Near-Sun Magnetic Field: Long Memory and Impact on the Turbulence Cascade

These properties, and in particular the long memory of the rate of occurrence of switchbacks, are compatible with a physical picture in which these structures are the signature of kinked magnetic flux tubes that are moving past the spacecraft. The combined long memory and high anisotropy of these events offer favorable conditions for anomalous particle transport.

Electron-to-ion Bulk Speed Ratio as a Parameter Reflecting the Occurrence of Strong Electron-dominated Current Sheets in the Solar Wind

Abstract

Current sheets (CSs) are preferred sites of magnetic reconnection and energy dissipation in astrophysical plasmas. Electric currents in them may be carried by both electrons and ions.

In our prior theoretical studies of the CS formation in turbulent plasmas, we utilized fully kinetic and hybrid code simulations with ions considered as particles and electrons—as a massless fluid.

We found that electron-dominated CSs in which electrons become the main carriers of the electric current and contributors to energy dissipation may form inside or nearby ion-dominated CSs.

Contrary to the magnetosphere, there have not been investigations of properties of CSs determined by the electron currents in the heliosphere so far.

Studies of CSs in the solar wind are focused on ion CSs only.

Theoretical studies predict that ion- and electron-dominated CSs may be observed by a spacecraft in different ways.

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).

Second, spatially separated electric currents in which electrons and ions are main carriers may form at reconnecting CSs, due to the effect of partial separation of charges (Zharkova & Khabarova 2012, 2015; Khabarova et al. 2020).

Numerical studies of the CS formation in turbulent plasmas by fully kinetic and by hybrid code simulations (in which ions are considered as particles and electrons as a fluid) found that thin electron-scale CSs can be formed inside ion scale thicker CSs (e.g., Malova et al. 2017; Azizabadi et al.2021).

Simulations done for the magnetospheric conditions suggest that electron-dominated CSs can also exist independently of ion CSs (see, e.g., Zelenyi et al. 2020 and references therein)

What say ye, jd116? Don Scott correct?

 

[Sol88]

Is the solar wind considered a turbulent plasma/s, jd116?

Or a big power cable with a gazzillion gamma rays frying Earth or whatever it is you bang on about when it gets a bit hot under your feet.

Are you capable?

 

[jonesdave116]

What say ye, jd116? Don Scott correct?

Not. Even. Close. Birkeland currents do not leave the Sun. The solar wind is quasi-neutral. Zero net current. As it must be. As Alfven told us. He was right, the clown Scott is wrong. Unsurprisingly.

Do you agree with Alfven, or the engineer? Is the sum of the charge of the total number of positive charges leaving the Sun, the same as the sum of the negative charges leaving the Sun?

Alfven, or Scott? Make your mind up. That will tell us a whole lot about your understanding, or lack thereof, of the subject.

We detect ~ equal numbers of ions and electrons in the ecliptic. Which direction are they heading in? Are they both going the same way? As they must, given that the magnetic field is heading outwards. Or are the ions heading out, and the electrons heading in (impossibly)?

Basic plasma physics, or Scott?

 

[jonesdave116]

Is the solar wind considered a turbulent plasma/s, jd116?

Or a big power cable with a gazzillion gamma rays frying Earth or whatever it is you bang on about when it gets a bit hot under your feet.

Are you capable?

What the hell are you prattling on about now? Of course it can be turbulent. Ever heard of CMEs? Waves? CIRs?

And what the hell have gamma rays got to do with anything? That is what would have prevented our evolution if, as the dozy clown Scott claims, the fusion which produces the detected neutrinos was occurring on the surface/ in the atmosphere of the Sun. Fusion = gamma rays. Gamma rays = death. You need to put the fusion somewhere where the mean free path of those gamma photons is tiny, so they lose a whole lot of energy on the way out of the Sun. That would be the core. Putting it on the surface/ in the atmosphere, would have rendered this planet uninhabitable long since.

So, let's add nuclear physics to plasma physics as subjects in which Scott is demonstrably clueless. However, we already knew that.

 

[Sol88]

Not. Even. Close. Birkeland currents do not leave the Sun. The solar wind is quasi-neutral. Zero net current. As it must be. As Alfven told us. He was right, the clown Scott is wrong. Unsurprisingly.

Do you agree with Alfven, or the engineer? Is the sum of the charge of the total number of positive charges leaving the Sun, the same as the sum of the negative charges leaving the Sun?

Alfven, or Scott? Make your mind up. That will tell us a whole lot about your understanding, or lack thereof, of the subject.

We detect ~ equal numbers of ions and electrons in the ecliptic. Which direction are they heading in? Are they both going the same way? As they must, given that the magnetic field is heading outwards. Or are the ions heading out, and the electrons heading in (impossibly)?

Basic plasma physics, or Scott?

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

 

[jonesdave116]

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

Which has precisely nothing to do with the idiotic claim that the solar wind is a current. Alfven told you why that is impossible. You are reading things that you don't understand. As usual.

 

[jonesdave116]

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

Is that this paper?;

EVIDENCE FOR QUASI-ADIABATIC MOTION OF CHARGED PARTICLES IN STRONG CURRENT SHEETS IN THE SOLAR WIND
Malova, H. V. et al (2017)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/834/1/34/pdf

The one in which they say;

As for magnetized electrons, because of their small gyroradii, their motion can be described in the drift approximation (Zelenyi et al. 2004). The electrons are assumed to be fast enough to support a quasi equilibrium Boltzmann distribution, and the condition of quasi-neutrality ni ≈ ne is also assumed.

My bolding.

That the one? What about it?

 

[jonesdave116]

Second, spatially separated electric currents in which electrons and ions are main carriers may form at reconnecting CSs, due to the effect of partial separation of charges (Zharkova & Khabarova 2012, 2015; Khabarova et al. 2020).

My bolding.

PARTICLE DYNAMICS IN THE RECONNECTING HELIOSPHERIC CURRENT SHEET: SOLAR WIND DATA VERSUS THREE-DIMENSIONAL PARTICLE-IN-CELL SIMULATIONS
Zharkova, V. V. & Khabarova, O. V. (2012)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/752/1/35/pdf

The distribution of a charge density ρ(x), which generates the polarization field E˜x(x), is shown in Figure 14 for different profiles of this electric field Zharkova & Agapitov (2009). This charge density distribution is likely to reflect the distributions of transit and bounced protons inside the current sheet described in Section 3.2.1 (see Figure 11) where the larger central peak measured in the plot (Figure 14) is formed by the bounced protons while the two smaller peaks at about ±1 × rpz are formed by the transit protons. Note that the average charge density over the simulation region is close to zero, which mean that the current sheet as a whole remains electrically neutral.

My bolding.

Now, what could they possibly mean by that? I think they mean what you have been told all along, and don't seem to be able to grasp. Then again, who can blame you, when the high priests you follow, who sell you this nonsense, can't understand it themselves?

That is why engineers should stick to engineering. Scott's nonsense reminds one of the Salem Hypothesis.

The Salem Hypothesis is the observation of an apparent correlation between the engineering trade and creationist beliefs (possibly due to crank magnetism, this can also include climate-change denial and other crackpot beliefs).

My bolding.

 

[Sol88]

No electron-dominated CSs have been observed in the solar wind before because it was supposed that they should have an electron-scale width unresolvable by spacecraft.

This study shows the first example of a CS with the current driven by electrons as observed by the MMS mission in the solar wind, outside the magnetosphere and the foreshock area.

Tusenfem should be a full bottle on this example.

Nested draped magnetic fields...mmmmmm?

 

[tusenfem]

Do you think Alvfen may like access to update his initial thoughts?


He’s still on the money considering...

Somehow I doubt he will be able to do that ...

 

[tusenfem]

Got a new term for you Evershed flows and counter Evershed flows

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

 

[The Man]

My bolding.

PARTICLE DYNAMICS IN THE RECONNECTING HELIOSPHERIC CURRENT SHEET: SOLAR WIND DATA VERSUS THREE-DIMENSIONAL PARTICLE-IN-CELL SIMULATIONS
Zharkova, V. V. & Khabarova, O. V. (2012)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/752/1/35/pdf



My bolding.

Now, what could they possibly mean by that? I think they mean what you have been told all along, and don't seem to be able to grasp. Then again, who can blame you, when the high priests you follow, who sell you this nonsense, can't understand it themselves?

That is why engineers should stick to engineering. Scott's nonsense reminds one of the Salem Hypothesis.



My bolding.

Oh no, jonesdave116 there could be electrons going the other way that are hidden inside the Ions going out!!! (apparent assertion 1)

Oops, but them electrons go out as well.

Wait, it could be an AC powered electric sun instead of DC. Charges just oscillate back and forth (apparent assertion 2, a couple of posts back)!!!

While this is far better and solves the problem of charging the sun. First it wasn't directly stated and I only inferred it from what was posted. Second it still doesn't match observational evidence as them nasty old ions would have to oscillate back and forth as well.

Still, the direct assertion of "Electrons carry the bulk of the current" is the most ridiculous (which was the reason for the inference of apparent assertion 2) and again shows a fixation on wires. Where positive ions are bound in a crystallin structure and electrons are modeled as an oscillating gas that "carry the bulk of the current". Don't work in plasma, where both are in a gaseous state. Yes, plasma is a gaseous state of matter (hot and cold). The very thing extoled, plasma, precludes such singular charged particle carriers of power (energy over time). In AC , basically RMS transferrer of power, as in a household AC circuit. Which of course still requires a loop to the energy source. Never identified and falls to the same problem stated, of electrons entering the heliopause which would now be both ions and electrons going back and forth through it.

Oh, but they just duck under for a moment or two. Inside the ions or wherever hasn't been directly measured yet. Heck, no wonder they went into the EU. They don't appear to be good Electricians let alone Electrical Engineers. Gots to make money somehow.

 

[Sol88]

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

and on Saturn

Magnetic field characters of returning flux tubes in Saturn's magnetosphere

The return current!

 

[Sol88]

yup tuck and roll..

We found that electron-dominated CSs in which electrons become the main carriers of the electric current and contributors to energy dissipation may form inside or nearby ion-dominated CSs.

Like Scott said...

 

[Sol88]

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

Thought so...

Not just found on the surface of the sun are they now!

Seen your name pop up.