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Electric universe theories here.

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You really do realize that you don't know what you are talking about, right?

Hans
Subconsciously? Probably.
I'm reminded of the line from the HHGTTG
"If human beings don't keep exercising their lips, their brains start working.”
It seems common with woosters of various persuasions that their need to continually keep spamming the same, repetitive, nonsense is a form of reinforcement of their own beliefs, to try and stave off self-doubt and the influx of reality,
 
Subconsciously? Probably.
I'm reminded of the line from the HHGTTG

It seems common with woosters of various persuasions that their need to continually keep spamming the same, repetitive, nonsense is a form of reinforcement of their own beliefs, to try and stave off self-doubt and the influx of reality,



and the influx of reality

Is the reality that electric currents, charge separation leading to electric fields to much reality?

is there charge separation in space?
 
Right so electric fields then NOT magnetic fields. Is it still fair to call is 'magnetic" re-connection?

This is yet another example of Sol88's failure to understand that the electromagnetic field is a unified field.

Since 1905, we have known that any division of that unified electromagnetic field into separate electric and magnetic fields will depend upon one's arbitrary choice of reference frame.

Wikipedia said:
The chosen reference frame determines whether an electromagnetic phenomenon is viewed as an effect of electrostatics or magnetism or a combination of the two.
 
yes ya can...In physics, the electric displacement field (denoted by D) or electric induction is a vector field that appears in Maxwell's equations. It accounts for the effects of free and bound charge within materials[further explanation needed].


First, it's bad form to cite a source without providing a link. So here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_displacement_field

Second, this is yet another case of you reading without understanding. Note that, as that page explains, this is SPECIFICALLY for dielectric materials. What is a dielectric material?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric

In electromagnetism, a dielectric (or dielectric material or dielectric medium) is an electrical insulator that can be polarised by an applied electric field. When a dielectric material is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in an electrical conductor, because they have no loosely bound, or free, electrons that may drift through the material, but instead they shift, only slightly, from their average equilibrium positions, causing dielectric polarisation.​

Plasmas are nod dielectrics. They have free electrons. Electric displacement field is not useful for conductors. It is useful for dealing with dielectric materials because it lets you make bound charges implicit rather than explicit, but free charges must always be explicit, so it gains you nothing when working with conductors.

Given how important you think electromagnetism is, it's quite remarkable how little you actually know about it.

ETA: oh, and the displacement field is a mathematical construct, it is not a physically real field. So, irony there regarding Sol88's distaste for mathematical abstraction.
 
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Drift currents, not the right language. Try Electric displacement field centered on the Sun.

I'd rather not, for the reasons Ziggurat has pointed out! Here we go again, in the most dumbed down way I can manage;

Scott wants electrons to drift in from beyond the heliosphere to power the Sun. That is impossible. No charged particles can enter the heliosphere unless they have ~ relativistic energies. We call them 'cosmic rays'. We know the flux of them. And there aren't enough of them to power much of anything. Any charged particle has to get past the piled-up magnetic field at the heliopause. Having got past that, it is confronted with the magnetic field carried by the solar wind, at ~ 400 km/s, all the way to that heliopause.

Then we can add his complete ignorance of what the solar wind actually is. He thinks it is a current of ions heading outward, with his drift electrons impossibly heading inwards. As Alfven explained, the solar wind must be overall neutral, otherwise we get an enormous space charge. Which would be bloody obvious. It seems like Alfven, and ~ 60 years of in-situ detections of the quasi-neutral solar wind, are not enough to convince Scott that he hasn't got a clue about plasma physics. Then again, why would he? He was an engineer! Pity he can't recognise that, and shut up about things he doesn't understand. Which also includes nuclear physics.

He wants the neutrinos we detect to come from fusion on the surface/ in the solar atmosphere! It is neither hot enough nor dense enough for fusion there. If, by some miracle, it did occur, it would be blindingly obvious as gamma ray line emission. Which is obviously not seen. Were there sufficient impossible fusion on the surface to account for the neutrino detections, we wouldn't be here. We would never have evolved. Nor would anything else on this planet.

The very fact of our existence is enough to show that Scott is completely clueless!
 
Well, according to our mate Ampreres, smidge of charge seperation would occur. This would lead to an electric field, maybe even one of my beloved DOUBLE LAYERS to form, to try and maintain quasi neutrality.

I don't know who Ampreres is, and also don't know what a "smidge of charge seperation" should be and why it would occur.
You seem to just put some keywords together in nonsensical sentences (including numerous typos)

This would set all sorts of fun games for your completely busted MHD. Like hecd2 says, MHD got a little E! What multiple “little” E or interacting? Maths be more complicated? Maybe too complex over galactic size grid computation in a super whiz bang CPU.

Just how it is.

There is lots of E in MHD, but you have to understand it, what the equations mean and such, which you do not.
And then you keep on complaining about the mathamajics being too complicated and then link to papers with an enourmous amount of math (which you do not understand) that show that the math is not too complicated, or else the paper would not have been written.
Did you ever look at a plasma physics book? How everything is elegantly derived, and no that is not only MHD but also full kinetic plasma physics.
This "discussion" is just getting more and more ridiculous, as it always does, until it stops and then starts again from point zero in a few months.

Just how it is.
 
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As usual you just highlight what you need, even though further on in the sentence it is explained why the measurements of electron and ion densities do not agree

nor apparently was charge neutrality maintained, as the electron number density remained comparatively stable. As violation of these conditions was unlikely, another source of pressure, such as heavy ions, must have been present; these would have been outside the detection range of the plasma instrument.

One cannot always measure everything with the instruments sent into space.

MMS also has some interesting bits n bobs on the failure of MHD (little E) and in light of the this assertion

There are many papers from Cluster, Themis and MMS that show all kind of things, e.g. where the "frozen in " condition breaks down (i.e. MHD is not valid) but also where the measured electric field E is in agreement with the motional electric field v x B, and thus .... (I will let you figure that out for yourself).
 
Collimation of the relativistic jet in the quasar 3C273

Our results demonstrate that ultra-high-resolution observations with new millimeter facilities can provide many new insights for high-powered AGN which were not previously suitable to study jet collimation. Further study using full polarimetric data and Faraday rotation synthesis can reveal the distribution of the three-dimensional magnetic field and the circumnuclear medium in the active collimation region (e.g., Park et al. 2019a). These explorations with polarimetric analysis using presented multifrequency data including GMVA+ALMA will be presented in a forthcoming paper.

Interesting....still drawing a blank?
 
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And still no answers to these...

1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?

4) What evidence exists to support them?

If you can't provide sensible and relevant answers for this, there is nothing to discuss.

Hans
 
As usual you just highlight what you need, even though further on in the sentence it is explained why the measurements of electron and ion densities do not agree



One cannot always measure everything with the instruments sent into space.



There are many papers from Cluster, Themis and MMS that show all kind of things, e.g. where the "frozen in " condition breaks down (i.e. MHD is not valid) but also where the measured electric field E is in agreement with the motional electric field v x B, and thus .... (I will let you figure that out for yourself).

Researchers observe directly turbulent magnetic reconnection in solar wind

For the first time, the research team found direct evidence of the turbulent reconnection in the solar wind. Moreover, the filamentary currents and flux ropes inside the diffusion region are observed, leading to a turbulent diffusion region. During the turbulent reconnection, the ions and electrons are effectively heated.


Electric fields?
 
You keep posting links to things that you don't understand, which don't show what you think it shows, and aren't generally even related to what you're responding to. Who exactly do you think you're impressing?
 
You keep posting links to things that you don't understand, which don't show what you think it shows, and aren't generally even related to what you're responding to. Who exactly do you think you're impressing?

I expect that he may be auditioning for that new movie which may possibly be made someday which is entitled Breaking 3: Electric Universe Boogaloo.
 
not electric fields
i asked you before how does plasma "flowing across the magnetic field" generate an electric field?

Well, magnetic fields apparently!

During the process, the magnetic energy is rapidly released to heat and accelerate the plasmas.
Researchers observe directly turbulent magnetic reconnection in solar wind

Magnetic fields and Electric Fields both accelerate charged particles?

The ELECTRIC FIELD in magnetic reconnection is actually an electric field. This is accelerating the particles NOT the magnetic field, silly. :rolleyes:

Did you know, tusenfem?

Magnetospheric Multiscale Mission Observations of Reconnecting Electric Fields in the Magnetotail on Kinetic Scales

In case you really want it hard...

This illustrates that when ions decouple electron physics dominates. MHD is dead as...

Tough you keep trying to expound it's virtues whilst poo pooing Scotts.

Key Points

  • First MMS observations of electric fields near reconnecting site in the magnetotail
  • A newly devised measure of estimating proximity to the electron diffusion region
  • Demonstration that when ions decouple the electron physics dominates

Magentic reconection as spouted here is dead. Electric Fields in the Magnetotail on Kinetic Scales dominates.

Along with a Diamagnetic cavity, both have parallels in AGN "jets" n Black Holes.

Plasma, scalable. Gravity, not so much.
 
me said:
not electric fields
i asked you before how does plasma "flowing across the magnetic field" generate an electric field?
Well, magnetic fields apparently!

Well that is an "answer".

Magnetic fields and Electric Fields both accelerate charged particles?

Of course, the magnetic tension of the field will relax, like a rubber band, and accelerate the attached ions and electrons. C'est simple comme bonjour.

The ELECTRIC FIELD in magnetic reconnection is actually an electric field.
Did you know, tusenfem?

Wow, the ELECTRIC FIELD is an electric field, who would have thought THAT???

This illustrates that when ions decouple electron physics dominates. MHD is dead as...

Please explain, so we can see whether you understand what you copypasted.

MHD is not dead, it is just NOT USED when you look at the ion diffusion region, and do you know WHY?
 
MHD is not dead, it is just NOT USED when you look at the ion diffusion region, and do you know WHY?

Sol88 seems to believe that mainstream physics has no way to deal with plasmas other than MHD. Which is obviously wrong.
 
Well that is an "answer".



Of course, the magnetic tension of the field will relax, like a rubber band, and accelerate the attached ions and electrons. C'est simple comme bonjour.



Wow, the ELECTRIC FIELD is an electric field, who would have thought THAT???



Please explain, so we can see whether you understand what you copypasted.

MHD is not dead, it is just NOT USED when you look at the ion diffusion region, and do you know WHY?

Of course, the magnetic tension of the field will relax, like a rubber band, and accelerate the attached ions and electrons. C'est simple comme bonjour., of course?

:boggled:

Source or example?
 
Of your magnetic acceleration is not accelerating the ions to the same speed as the electrons...

Back to square one. The DEATH of MHD as a useful model.
 
also

Wow, the ELECTRIC FIELD is an electric field, who would have thought THAT???

So, magnetic reconection is actually more correctly called electric current rearrangement giving rise to small electric fields (charge separation) that accelerates particles?

Electric re-connection.
 
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