Adnan Syed - Serial / Undisclosed
- Thread starter Desert Fox
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angrysoba
Philosophile
Hmmm... you're right.
I take back that point then. I suppose if she was registered as being in class, then I suppose that would confirm it.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
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blood from what injury
The shirt had been used as a rag to wipe the windshield of Ms. Lee's car. Ms. Lee did not have external injuries, and I have read some material elsewhere that suggested that she coughed up blood and mucus. I have not been able to nail this down with an appropriate citation, but I did find a discussion of strangulation at EvidenceProfBlog, a post which makes Jay look like a liar.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Please note that he is so pro-Syed that he has floated some ridiculous theories over the years.
Jay is a liar, but it seems he mostly tries to distance himself from the crime. My personal theory is he likely helped Syed move Hae into the trunk, but doesn’t want to admit it.
With respect to the car, pro-Syed people try to say the cops told Jay where the car was, however in the police file, they were appealing for helicopter use to try to find it.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Looking through some of Ampulla's documents, and indeed they have interviews with students such as Aisa Pittman who says she say Hae-min Lee in class which finished at 14:15.
There does seem to be a discrepancy in which Adnan is recorded as saying he wanted a ride home from Hae-min and at another time denies he needs to because he has his own car.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Also, Hae was strangled, so the tee shirt is likely unrelated. For the dna, it was tested on her shoes, which were found in her car. This never was a dna case. She was buried for a month and had mold growing on her. Moreover, she had interacted with Syed during the day. His dna on her means nothing and the lack of his dna on her means nothing.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Yes, she was at school that day. There were witnesses that Syed asked her for a ride after school, under the pretense that his car was in the shop. In reality, he had given his car and cell phone to Jay for the day. Hae went missing between 2:30-ish and 3:15 when she was supposed to pick up her little cousins from daycare. Syed told his own attorneys that they used to have sex behind the Best Buy during that timeframe. That evening, he told cops he never asked for a ride. Then he later changed his story multiple times.
I really don’t think there were any procedural errors. This whole thing is unbelievable. The person they claim made a threat was Bilal and the threat was against his own wife. Moreover, the defense knew full well about him because Gutierrez represented him at the grand jury hearing, before she was Syed’s attorney. Bilal was going to testify for Syed, but they did not end up calling him.
“Mr. S” has issues for sure, but there is zero evidence he knew Hae, nor did he ever kill anyone. He just liked to be naked and drink.
Yeah, from the podcast and other stuff I’ve read, it’s plausible/probable, that he did in fact do it. On the other hand, his defense could/should have been a lot more competent.
I’m gonna push back on the comments about the journalist in the podcast having an obvious crush on the guy though, that’s stupid. Having commentary about how a guy is different after starting out a high school teenager then being in prison for years doesn’t mean she’s personally disappointed that he’s not cute/charismatic any more.
I’m gonna push back on the comments about the journalist in the podcast having an obvious crush on the guy though, that’s stupid. Having commentary about how a guy is different after starting out a high school teenager then being in prison for years doesn’t mean she’s personally disappointed that he’s not cute/charismatic any more.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I remember getting to the end of Serial with the impression that the reporter's neutrality had been compromised along the way. Whether by the smell of her own farts, or because of some sort of "Stockholm syndrome", wasn't clear. Or maybe it was just a side effect of the overhyped-inconclusive nature of the podcast itself. I was expecting the kind of deep-dive investigative journalism that we don't see enough of. Not the harbinger of the million and one True Crime Narrative shows we've got now.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
I think in order to make it a compelling story, the slant had to be toward innocence. Otherwise, it’s not a conundrum. Koenig has pretty much remained silent since, probably because of the severe backlash the last several years have seen. It is interesting that the “lawyer” friend who has made a living off of proclaiming Syed’s innocence no longer speaks to Koenig. She wanted the podcast to be much more innocent leaning than it was. She also didn’t plan on us obtaining the MPIA and laying bare the investigation.
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
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Listen to the first episode on YT starting about 20:00 in; she talks about his big brown eyes and indulges herself in what even she admits is an idiotic line of thinking--could someone who looks like that actually strangle his girlfriend?
Yeah but that’s just bog standard dewy eyed editorialization. It doesn’t mean she had a crush on the guy. It’s just that old ‘weird, dahmer didn’t look like the kind of guy who’d saw people’s heads off’ vibe. It’s an evergreen line to use because some people are forever surprised that murder suspects aren’t all leering piggy eyed guys that scream ‘danger.’ (I mean, it IS human instinct to be well disposed towards an attractive looking person; is it that weird to comment on it when you experience that ‘lack of alarm bells’ when faced with a normal looking person who has been convicted of murder?) And other people like to dunk on the idea that some people are surprised. So the line works on all audiences.
As far as the previous couple of posts from Prestige and Vater, yeah I’m with you there. It felt like there wasn’t that much hay to be made (some, but not enough for all those hours) and they had to stretch and tone it up. I found the previous Serial stuff about normal schmoes in normal schmoe amounts of legal trouble and what an unmitigated pain in the ass the system is for everyone involved, a lot more compelling.
As far as the previous couple of posts from Prestige and Vater, yeah I’m with you there. It felt like there wasn’t that much hay to be made (some, but not enough for all those hours) and they had to stretch and tone it up. I found the previous Serial stuff about normal schmoes in normal schmoe amounts of legal trouble and what an unmitigated pain in the ass the system is for everyone involved, a lot more compelling.
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catsmate
No longer the 1
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So what?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
What exactly do you believe was DNA tested? Adnan's alibi? His movements? The strangulation of the victim? The movement of the victim's body? The burial?
What, specifically, do you believe Adnan has been "excluded" from?
ETA: Your epistemology is pants on head retarded from the start. If Adnan is innocent, why was he convicted in the first place? Checkmate, Adnan tankies.
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Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
It was voided because Mosby is under indictment for perjury and money shenanigans. Her trial was set to begin on the very day the motion to vacate was heard in court. A hearing, I might add, that was scheduled for a Monday and which the victim’s family was notified about the Friday before. Hae’s brother could not catch a flight from California by Monday morning in order to be present at the hearing. The MtV stated there was a Brady violation, but they failed to state what that violation was. State’s Attorney Brian Frosh denied the Brady violation. Supposedly, the Brady violation was Bilal being overheard threatening to kill Hae. Bilal was overheard threatening to “make the bitch disappear,” but he was talking about his wife at the time. They also claimed Mr. Sellers failed a polygraph and that his subsequent polygraph was substandard. He did not do well on his first one, but he said that was because he was late to meet his wife and a real estate agent. The second one was a tension test (going from memory here) and he did okay on that one. He is the one who discovered the body.
The woman who wrote the brief was just placed in that department from an innocence project, AIUI. She, along with Syed’s defense attorneys, wrote the MtV. After the hearing, Mosby said she would certify him innocent once the dna came back as not his. Then the dna from her shoes came back as not his and on exactly the 30th day, Mosby dropped his charges. The rest of the dna has not come back yet. This was in the bag from the beginning. Mosby is soft on crime, which is partly why Baltimore is the homicide capital of the country attm.
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Sounds like you’ve become a member of QAdnan.
angrysoba
Philosophile
To answer your question, his conviction was voided, according to the latest legal motion, because of Brady violations (failure to disclose evidence that may have helped Adnan). From what I can gather that mostly consists of excluding other suspects too quickly or being too confident in cell phone data.
Okay then, but now please answer these questions….
1. How does the DNA “exclude” Adnan?
2. Who do you think is a more likely suspect and why? (Remember that the other facts of the case have to fit that story better than they do Adnan).
3. What does Mosby mean by “the care is over”? Does it mean they have officially decided that Nobody will be convicted of her murder and that nobody will continue looking for the murderer because nobody else did it?
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
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study on fingernail YSTR DNA
There can be foreign DNA on clothing, for example, that is unrelated to any crime. However, DNA on fingernails is more probative, because there have been roughly a dozen peer-reviewed studies on it. That is why I cannot understand why the fingernails had not previously been tested. Mixed DNA is relatively rare, although it occurs more frequently in homicides. It generally does not persist, which has been ascribed to bathing or hand washing. I don't know how long it persists after a homicide.
Here is the abstract to an article about a controlled scratching study using YSTR fingernail DNA.
The collection of biological debris beneath fingernails can be useful in forensic casework when a struggle between the victim and the offender is suspected. In the present study, we set up a controlled scratching experiment in which female volunteers scratched the male volunteers' forearms, simulating a defensive action during an assault. A total of 160 fingernail samples were collected: 80 "control samples" before the scratching, 40 samples immediately after the scratching (t = 0 h), and 40 samples 5 h after the scratching (t = 5 h). The aim was to evaluate, using a real-time PCR approach and Y-STR profiling, the transfer and the persistence of male DNA under female fingernails after scratching. A significant reduction in DNA yield was observed between fingernail samples collected immediately and those collected 5 h after scratching, with a corresponding decrease in Y-STR profile quality. Overall, 38/40 (95%) of the fingernail samples collected immediately (t = 0 h) and 24/40 (60%) of those collected 5 h later (t = 5 h) were suitable for comparison and the scratched male volunteers could not be excluded as donors of the foreign DNA from 37 (92.5%) of the t = 0 h and from 10 (25%) of the t = 5 h profiles. The analysis of male DNA under female fingernails showed that Y-chromosome STR typing may provide extremely valuable genetic information of the male contributor(s), although 5 h after scratching the profile of the scratched male was lost in three-quarters of samples.
There can be foreign DNA on clothing, for example, that is unrelated to any crime. However, DNA on fingernails is more probative, because there have been roughly a dozen peer-reviewed studies on it. That is why I cannot understand why the fingernails had not previously been tested. Mixed DNA is relatively rare, although it occurs more frequently in homicides. It generally does not persist, which has been ascribed to bathing or hand washing. I don't know how long it persists after a homicide.
Here is the abstract to an article about a controlled scratching study using YSTR fingernail DNA.
The collection of biological debris beneath fingernails can be useful in forensic casework when a struggle between the victim and the offender is suspected. In the present study, we set up a controlled scratching experiment in which female volunteers scratched the male volunteers' forearms, simulating a defensive action during an assault. A total of 160 fingernail samples were collected: 80 "control samples" before the scratching, 40 samples immediately after the scratching (t = 0 h), and 40 samples 5 h after the scratching (t = 5 h). The aim was to evaluate, using a real-time PCR approach and Y-STR profiling, the transfer and the persistence of male DNA under female fingernails after scratching. A significant reduction in DNA yield was observed between fingernail samples collected immediately and those collected 5 h after scratching, with a corresponding decrease in Y-STR profile quality. Overall, 38/40 (95%) of the fingernail samples collected immediately (t = 0 h) and 24/40 (60%) of those collected 5 h later (t = 5 h) were suitable for comparison and the scratched male volunteers could not be excluded as donors of the foreign DNA from 37 (92.5%) of the t = 0 h and from 10 (25%) of the t = 5 h profiles. The analysis of male DNA under female fingernails showed that Y-chromosome STR typing may provide extremely valuable genetic information of the male contributor(s), although 5 h after scratching the profile of the scratched male was lost in three-quarters of samples.
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Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Chris,
What happens to dna (not mvac extracted) after a month being buried with decomp and mold? I will go look to see what was tested.