The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

[Vixen]

Vixen's statement is false.

We should recognize such falsehoods and understand the true facts.

Knox complained of mistreatment by the police in her Memoriale written in English soon after the 6 November interrogations. She also complained of mistreatment by the police and unfair interpretation in her letters to her lawyer soon after her arrest.

Knox complained of mistreatment by the police and unfair interpretation by the interpreter in her court statement and she filed repeated complaints on this in the appeals.

Before the Massei court, her lawyer requested the transfer of the record of her complaints to a prosecutor for an investigation. The Massei court ignored this request, but allowed prosecutor Mignini to transfer the record of Knox's statements claiming mistreatment by the police and unfair interpretation to his own office. Mignini initiated a criminal case against Knox for those statements and her subsequent appeals, charging her with aggravated continuing calunnia (malicious false accusation). The very filing of such charges indicate that Knox's statements in court were officially recognized as requiring the filing of a complaint by police, prosecutor, or judge. See the definition of the law on calunnia, CPP Article 368*, to understand this point.

Under Italian law, Knox's original Memoriale complaining of police mistreatment should have been made an official complaint by the police. (Under Italian law, any statement made to police alleging a crime is made into a complaint by the police which is then sent to a prosecutor.) The police failed to take these steps - probably since the same police had received Knox's Memoriale as had allegedly committed the mistreatment.

The above facts were recognized by the ECHR in its judment Knox v. Italy, and formed part of the basis for the ECHR finding that Italy had committed a violation of Convention Article 3, procedural branch, in failing to conduct an independent and effective investigation of a credible complaint of inhuman or degrading treatment.**

* The relevant part of the text of CPP Article 368, Calunnia. The CPP article numbers in brackets are insertions by the law firm that published this as a guide to understanding the legal terms. For example, each of Knox's Memoriale and statements in the court and appeals would be likely be considered as a denucia (report by a private party which by law requires the police to write out a complaint to be forwarded to a prosecutor.) In contrast, a querela is a form of complaint which explicitly requests prosecution.



Source:

https://www.brocardi.it/codice-penale/libro-secondo/titolo-iii/capo-i/art368.html

** The ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy discusses the alleged violation of Convention Article 3 in paragraphs 114 to 140. The most relevant part of that judgment is shown here:



Translation by Google with my help; some inline citations omitted for clarity:



Source:

https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-189422

Unfortunately, to make a complaint about individuals in an organisation, you really do have to make it clear. For example, a clear header, such as 'Formal Complaint' followed by spelling it out, 'I wish to lodge a formal complaint against Officer X, followed by exact reasons for the complaint, together iwth time, date, witnesses.'

How on earth were officers to know that a mention in a memo outlining how she came to accuse Lumumba was a formal complaint? It is understandable that a young adult in a hyper-stressful situation would not know that. This is why under Italian bar standards, the attorney acting for the client has a legal duty to make the complaint. IIRC the attorney at the time was Velo dova (name escapes me), who billed his client handsomely. This is the person who failed in his duty of care and due diligence towards his client. It was his duty to know and understand the bar standards. If Knox reported to him that she had been brutalised by the cops, he failed in his duty to lodge a formal complaint.

Why isn't Knox suing Vellodova for negligence?

Why is he still practising?

Given that people under remand utter negative epithets all the time, how are police supposed to divine which ones constitute a formal complaint?

 

[Vixen]

The hypothesis that Lumumba could have been used by Knox as a cover-up for Guede because they allegedly looked alike because both had dark skin is mentioned but not one actually adopted in the Marasca CSC panel motivation report.

This hypothesis reflects the racism of some Italians, possibly including the prosecutors in the case, including possibly Mignini.

There are numerous reports of racism in Italy experience by by dark-skinned people; some of these can be found by an online search using the phrase "racism in Italy."

Here's an example:



Another Black American woman reports:

[QUOTE“I was constantly approached by old white men being solicited for prostitution,” she says. “When I walked down the street, people would slow down their cars, roll down the windows, honk, yell, and sometimes I was even followed.”

When she told her host family about the incidents, they shrugged and said, “That’s how people perceive Africans.”QUOTE]

Source: https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/is-italy-racist.html

Another article about a Black American experiencing racism in Italy is from an editor of the NY Times:



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/travel/racism-travel-italy-study-abroad.html

A stream of racist remarks and threats were directed towards the first black Italian (Congolese by birth) appointed as a government minister:



Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/23/...-national-official-spur-debate-on-racism.html

I am not sure how relevant your examples of racism in Italy towards African nationals and African Americans are. The fact is, under EU law, you will find that in Italy, discrimination on the grounds of race is illegal for any institution, including the police. Technically, shouting names at people in the street can be construed as a 'hate crime' but I am guessing that few report it.

This is a very different scenario from segregation and slavery that was practised in the USA until very recently. Some prison reform activists argue that Amendment 13 is a continuation of slavery as it states that prisoners are slaves of the state. Given this works disproportionately against its African-American population, it would seem to be quite cynical for a European American to falsely accuse an African guy (with a very young family and a business to run for his livelihood, and who had been kind enough to give Knox a job without a work permit) of rape (of all things) and murder, then it really is not on the same parallel as an Italian yob harassing people in the street.

Having said that, I think Knox was acting in self-interest rather than racism. I think she was friends with Guede. She did support falsely convicted African-Americans via the Innocent Project so I think to would be unfair to claim racism per se was her motive in naming Lumumba. However, she would have been reasonably aware that Lumumba being Black, would have had the justice system coming down hard on him, as an immigrant.

In a complex situation where a serious crime has been committed and there is a huge impetus to cover up one's own involvement, then there can be complex reasons for pointing police in the wrong direction.

 

[Numbers]

]Unfortunately, to make a complaint about individuals in an organisation, you really do have to make it clear. For example, a clear header, such as 'Formal Complaint' followed by spelling it out, 'I wish to lodge a formal complaint against Officer X, followed by exact reasons for the complaint, together iwth time, date, witnesses.'[/HILITE]

How on earth were officers to know that a mention in a memo outlining how she came to accuse Lumumba was a formal complaint? It is understandable that a young adult in a hyper-stressful situation would not know that. This is why under Italian bar standards, the attorney acting for the client has a legal duty to make the complaint. IIRC the attorney at the time was Velo dova (name escapes me), who billed his client handsomely. This is the person who failed in his duty of care and due diligence towards his client. It was his duty to know and understand the bar standards. If Knox reported to him that she had been brutalised by the cops, he failed in his duty to lodge a formal complaint.

Why isn't Knox suing Vellodova for negligence?

Why is he still practising?

Given that people under remand utter negative epithets all the time, how are police supposed to divine which ones constitute a formal complaint?

Your statement is false. It is not what Italian law, CPP Article 333, states.

CPP Article 333 only requires that the person reporting a crime state what the offense is. When the police or prosecutor receive this information, they proceed to find additional information, from the person reporting or through investigation, to fill out an official complaint, in writing, under CPP Article 331.

Under CPP Article 331, the police or prosecutor must make this report in writing, even if the alleged perpetrator of the offense is not identified. The information that the police or prosecutor must include in their report, required under CPP Article 331, is listed in CPP Article 332.

The minimum required information required by CPP Article 331 and 332 is:

According to CPP Article 331, the name of the police officer(s) or prosecutor filling out the report.

According to CPP Article 332:
1) the description of the essential elements of the alleged offense.
2) the specification of the date that the information was acquired that the alleged offense had occurred, and the dates the sources of evidence already known had been acquired.
3) whenever possible, the police or prosecutor shall include in the report any information that shall help identify the alleged perpetrator, the victim, and whoever may be able to provide information relevant to the reconstruction of the events.


A brief summary of CPP Article 333, Denuncia* da parte di privati:

1. Any person who has news or information about an (alleged) criminal offense may report it.

2. The report may be orally or in writing by a person or by a lawyer appointed by that person to a police officer or to a prosecutor. If presented in writing, the person or the appointed lawyer signs the document.

3. If the report is from an anonymous source, it may not be used, except under the conditions specified in CPP Article 240.

* The word "denuncia" may be translated as denunciation, report, complaint, or declaration.

Sources:

https://www.brocardi.it/codice-di-procedura-penale/libro-quinto/titolo-ii/art333.html

Google translation with Collins Reverso help.

The Italian Code of Criminal Procedure: Critical essays and English translation. Editors: M. Gialuz, L. Luparia, F. Scarpa; Wolters Kluwer Italia; (C) 2014.

 

[Bill Williams]

Having said that, I think Knox was acting in self-interest rather than racism. I think she was friends with Guede. She did support falsely convicted African-Americans via the Innocent Project so I think to would be unfair to claim racism per se was her motive in naming Lumumba. However, she would have been reasonably aware that Lumumba being Black, would have had the justice system coming down hard on him, as an immigrant.

Wow. The posts above are nothing but noise, apropos of nothing. Just citationless, evidenceless riffing and supposition.

You can suppose all you want that Knox was friends with Guede. No evidence supports that.

 

[Stacyhs]

Unfortunately, to make a complaint about individuals in an organisation, you really do have to make it clear. For example, a clear header, such as 'Formal Complaint' followed by spelling it out, 'I wish to lodge a formal complaint against Officer X, followed by exact reasons for the complaint, together iwth time, date, witnesses.'

How on earth were officers to know that a mention in a memo outlining how she came to accuse Lumumba was a formal complaint? It is understandable that a young adult in a hyper-stressful situation would not know that. This is why under Italian bar standards, the attorney acting for the client has a legal duty to make the complaint. IIRC the attorney at the time was Velo dova (name escapes me), who billed his client handsomely. This is the person who failed in his duty of care and due diligence towards his client. It was his duty to know and understand the bar standards. If Knox reported to him that she had been brutalised by the cops, he failed in his duty to lodge a formal complaint.

Why isn't Knox suing Vellodova for negligence?

Why is he still practising?

Given that people under remand utter negative epithets all the time, how are police supposed to divine which ones constitute a formal complaint?

Numbers has quoted and cited the laws regarding reporting of complaints and the ECHR ruling that the police failed to investigate after a complaint. All you've provided is an unsupported, highly biased opinion based on ignorance of Italian law. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the ECHR ruling and Italian law.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Why do you say "burglarizing" and not simply "burgling"? I assume it's an American thing, but it's a weird word.

I think the word burglar existed long before burgle and burglarize were coined in the 19th century, one in British English and the other in American.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Having said that, I think Knox was acting in self-interest rather than racism. I think she was friends with Guede. She did support falsely convicted African-Americans via the Innocent Project so I think to would be unfair to claim racism per se was her motive in naming Lumumba. However, she would have been reasonably aware that Lumumba being Black, would have had the justice system coming down hard on him, as an immigrant.

Wow. The posts above are nothing but noise, apropos of nothing. Just citationless, evidenceless riffing and supposition.

You can suppose all you want that Knox was friends with Guede. No evidence supports that.

What do you mean there was no evidence? Didn't you read the testimonies from all those people who saw Knox and Guede together dancing at Domus and the Red Zone? Eating pizza together in the main piazza? What about the two having each other's numbers in their contacts and all those phone calls and texts between the two? Remember the testimony of Laura and Filomena about Guede coming over?

The fact that Guede had to ask the boys downstairs about Amanda and if she had a boyfriend is further proof they were friends!

 

[Numbers]

I am not sure how relevant your examples of racism in Italy towards African nationals and African Americans are. The fact is, under EU law, you will find that in Italy, discrimination on the grounds of race is illegal for any institution, including the police. Technically, shouting names at people in the street can be construed as a 'hate crime' but I am guessing that few report it.

This is a very different scenario from segregation and slavery that was practised in the USA until very recently. Some prison reform activists argue that Amendment 13 is a continuation of slavery as it states that prisoners are slaves of the state. Given this works disproportionately against its African-American population, it would seem to be quite cynical for a European American to falsely accuse an African guy (with a very young family and a business to run for his livelihood, and who had been kind enough to give Knox a job without a work permit) of rape (of all things) and murder, then it really is not on the same parallel as an Italian yob harassing people in the street.

Having said that, I think Knox was acting in self-interest rather than racism. I think she was friends with Guede. She did support falsely convicted African-Americans via the Innocent Project so I think to would be unfair to claim racism per se was her motive in naming Lumumba. However, she would have been reasonably aware that Lumumba being Black, would have had the justice system coming down hard on him, as an immigrant.

In a complex situation where a serious crime has been committed and there is a huge impetus to cover up one's own involvement, then there can be complex reasons for pointing police in the wrong direction.

The statements in your post don't make sense.

Knox was coerced by the police to make her statement against Lumumba; this may be inferred as implied by the ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy.

Minority persons, such as dark-skinned individuals, in Italy and some other EU countries sometimes face discrimination. This is true as well in the US.

It may well be that one reason the Italian police focused their attention on Knox included the fact that she was employed in her part-time job at a pub by an African, but I am not aware of any evidence to support that hypothesis.

There are official EU reports providing statistical evidence of discrimination in Italy against minority groups, including dark-skinned persons.

Here's a 2018 article describing some findings from one such EU report:

Ethnic Discrimination Continues in Italy & Across the EU
The EU Fundamental Rights Agency's report on discrimination in the EU reveals ongoing harassment and ethnic profiling across the bloc.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

Discrimination in Italy

The data from Italy shows that 37% of the interviewees from sub-Saharan Africa and 20% of North Africans felt discriminated because of their skin colour in the last five years, and 32% of South Asians felt discriminated because of their ethnicity. ....

Discriminations also involve second generations of foreign backgrounds, in fact 29% of women and 19% of men of sub-Saharan background, 37% of women and 31% of men with a North African background and 21% of the group of South Asian background experienced some form of discrimination. These results are commented by the report as being “relatively high rates of discrimination”. With regard to discriminations in the access to an employment, the report points out that 23% of the interviewed people with North African background report a form of discrimination while looking for a job.

Harassment

Harassment is a form of discrimination defined by the Racial Equality Directive of 2000 as an “unwanted conduct related to racial or ethnic origin [that] takes place with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person and of creating an intimidating, hos*tile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment”.

Data from FRA's research suggest that in Italy, 30% of the interviewees of sub-Saharan background, 33% of North Africans and 29% of South Asians experienced at least one episode of harassment in the past 12 months.

Police Stops

With regard to police stops, among the interviewees from sub-Saharan Africa, 28% was stopped by Italian police at least once in the five years before the survey; 60% of those who were stopped perceived the stop as ethnic profiling. Among immigrants from North Africa, 32% were stopped at least once in the five years before the survey and 71% of the stopped perceived the stop as ethnic profiling. With regard to immigrants from Asia, 22% were stopped at least once in the five years before the survey and 46% of the stopped perceived the stop as ethnic profiling. With regard to identity checks in Italy, 96% of stopped sub-Saharan Africans and 92% of stopped North Africans were asked to provide ID cards, passports or residence permits.

Source:

https://www.liberties.eu/en/stories/discriminations-of-immigrants-in-italy/13833

Wikipedia has a list of violent attacks on minority persons - predominantly dark-skinned individuals in Italy. There were at least 15 such attacks since 2018.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Italy
subhead:
Racist attacks, shootings and murders from 2018 onward

 

[LondonJohn]

Why isn't Knox suing Vellodova for negligence?

Why is he still practising?

Probably because:

1) He wasn't negligent wrt the police malpractice and unlawful coercion

and

2) His name is not "Vellodova", it's Dalla Vedova.


(All these years, and you still cannot bother to correctly spell the name of one of the main players in this saga/farce.....)

 

[Vixen]

Your statement is false. It is not what Italian law, CPP Article 333, states.

CPP Article 333 only requires that the person reporting a crime state what the offense is. When the police or prosecutor receive this information, they proceed to find additional information, from the person reporting or through investigation, to fill out an official complaint, in writing, under CPP Article 331.

Under CPP Article 331, the police or prosecutor must make this report in writing, even if the alleged perpetrator of the offense is not identified. The information that the police or prosecutor must include in their report, required under CPP Article 331, is listed in CPP Article 332.

The minimum required information required by CPP Article 331 and 332 is:

According to CPP Article 331, the name of the police officer(s) or prosecutor filling out the report.

According to CPP Article 332:
1) the description of the essential elements of the alleged offense.
2) the specification of the date that the information was acquired that the alleged offense had occurred, and the dates the sources of evidence already known had been acquired.
3) whenever possible, the police or prosecutor shall include in the report any information that shall help identify the alleged perpetrator, the victim, and whoever may be able to provide information relevant to the reconstruction of the events.


A brief summary of CPP Article 333, Denuncia* da parte di privati:

1. Any person who has news or information about an (alleged) criminal offense may report it.

2. The report may be orally or in writing by a person or by a lawyer appointed by that person to a police officer or to a prosecutor. If presented in writing, the person or the appointed lawyer signs the document.

3. If the report is from an anonymous source, it may not be used, except under the conditions specified in CPP Article 240.

* The word "denuncia" may be translated as denunciation, report, complaint, or declaration.

Sources:

https://www.brocardi.it/codice-di-procedura-penale/libro-quinto/titolo-ii/art333.html

Google translation with Collins Reverso help.

The Italian Code of Criminal Procedure: Critical essays and English translation. Editors: M. Gialuz, L. Luparia, F. Scarpa; Wolters Kluwer Italia; (C) 2014.

I was actually referring to Bar Standards, not the criminal code. An attorney has certain professional standards and reporting misconduct towards a client of his or hers (by the police or court officials) is his or her duty to report in a timely and proper manner to the right person or office.

 

[Numbers]

Probably because:

1) He wasn't negligent wrt the police malpractice and unlawful coercion

and

2) His name is not "Vellodova", it's Dalla Vedova.


(All these years, and you still cannot bother to correctly spell the name of one of the main players in this saga/farce.....)

Also, one may note the following:

1. The counselors Luciano Ghirga and Carlo Dalla Vedova, who appeared for Amanda Marie Knox, with counselors Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori, who appeared for Raffaele Sollecito, won the case before the Marasca CSC panel.

2. Counselors Ghirga and and Dalla Vedova, appearing for Amanda Knox, also won the case before the Boninsegna court.

3.

La requérante a été représentée par Me C. Dalla Vedova, avocat à Rome.

The applicant was represented by Mr. C. Dalla Vedova, lawyer from Rome.

Dalla Vedova won the case Knox v. Italy.

 

[Numbers]

I was actually referring to Bar Standards, not the criminal code. An attorney has certain professional standards and reporting misconduct towards a client of his or hers (by the police or court officials) is his or her duty to report in a timely and proper manner to the right person or office.

Vixen, please cite the actual Italian Bar Standards which show what you claim.

Why do you believe that your claim about Bar Standards over-rules the responsibilities of the Italian Police and Prosecutor to follow Italian law, including CPP Article 331, which requires them to file a complaint with a prosecutor when a private person makes a report orally or in writing in accordance with CPP Article 333 to them of an alleged crime?

 

[Vixen]

The statements in your post don't make sense.

Knox was coerced by the police to make her statement against Lumumba; this may be inferred as implied by the ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy.

Minority persons, such as dark-skinned individuals, in Italy and some other EU countries sometimes face discrimination. This is true as well in the US.

It may well be that one reason the Italian police focused their attention on Knox included the fact that she was employed in her part-time job at a pub by an African, but I am not aware of any evidence to support that hypothesis.

There are official EU reports providing statistical evidence of discrimination in Italy against minority groups, including dark-skinned persons.

Here's a 2018 article describing some findings from one such EU report:

Ethnic Discrimination Continues in Italy & Across the EU
The EU Fundamental Rights Agency's report on discrimination in the EU reveals ongoing harassment and ethnic profiling across the bloc.

Here is an excerpt from the article:



Source:

https://www.liberties.eu/en/stories/discriminations-of-immigrants-in-italy/13833

Wikipedia has a list of violent attacks on minority persons - predominantly dark-skinned individuals in Italy. There were at least 15 such attacks since 2018.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Italy
subhead:
Racist attacks, shootings and murders from 2018 onward

It is true that Italy has a reputation for far right politics, for example, the Lega Nord and the current Meloni of the Italian Social Movement based on Mussolini-style fascism (= as in the true meaning of the word). Yes, it has strict anti-immigrant laws, and this is partly because of (a) the political parties in power, and (b) the fact that Italy being located where it is, is literally the first stop for many thousands of economic migrants and asylum seekers from Africa. However, it is still an EU country and has to abide by EU directives. For example, in the Equality Act.

The issue in respect of the US-based Friends of Amanda Knox and associated campaigners is what starkly highlights the attitude towards Guede and Lumumba (for example, this includes West Seattle Herald free newspaper, whose editor, Ken Robinson, who is the cousin of Knox' husband Chris (_?); the owner of a whole stable of newspaper titles was their grandfather: it regularly wrote articles smearing Mignini and the Italian police).

Whilst Knox herself isn't/wasn't what we'd call racist per se, there is the heavy bias of the FOAK-ers group think, even it it is 'unconscious bias'. This reveals itself in the fact Knox is an American citizen. She was the 'foreigner', as it were. Guede was the Italian (albeit having only a resident's permit). Lumumba had arrived in Perugia in 1980 to study Italian and Political Sciences, and was also some kind of a jazz musician who played drums and bongos. Yet to the group think of the FOAK-ers, the attitude was that Knox should be treated with privilege, whilst Lumumba and Guede were entirely dispensible. Some of the rhetoric about Lumumba has been quite shocking considering he was arrested under false pretences, thanks to the subverting of justice by Knox.

As an example of this type of the remnants of the feelings of entitlement based on race ('white supremacy' - horrible phrase but that is what racism is built on), there are the guys who wrote the short tract, 'The Forgotten Killer', putting forward a theory that Guede was the sole killer. As I recall, an independent witness said some Arabic-looking guy had run past her on the steps, possibly a suspect running away after the crime. In the aforesaid book, this description changes to, 'The police should look for a Sub-Saharan African'. Completely ignoring any evidence against Knox and Sollecito.
Likewise, Nina Burleigh, revels in describing the poverty of life in the Ivory Coast and the fact many of the children there are born out of wedlock and the Muslim-practising men have more than one wife. Completely ignoring the history of French colonisation that helped create those conditions in the first place. So the FOAK brigade demanded that Knox be freed because it was obvious that it was Guede who did it alone. Unfortunately, the Italian detectives - the wretched racists Numbers tries to paint them as - really didn't see that Knox and Sollecito were innocent at all.

So on the one hand we have this vociferous clamour that Knox is innocent from the FOAK-ers and all the objective scientific evidence is all fixed in some way or contaminated, whilst none of them could care less that Lumumba still has not received the €42,000 damages Knox was ordered to pay him.

Note how Lumumba had a whole group of Congolese supporters who demonstrated in protest against his arrest. Nobody came out and demonstrated when Knox and Sollecito were arrested.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, please cite the actual Italian Bar Standards which show what you claim.

Why do you believe that your claim about Bar Standards over-rules the responsibilities of the Italian Police and Prosecutor to follow Italian law, including CPP Article 331, which requires them to file a complaint with a prosecutor when a private person makes a report orally or in writing in accordance with CPP Article 333 to them of an alleged crime?

It is arguable that Knox' passing reference to being slapped was a 'report', more a descriptive narrative about why she stood by her claim she named Lumumba. Some stuff about seeing him in flashing lights of green and in her head she thought this or that.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, please cite the actual Italian Bar Standards which show what you claim.

Why do you believe that your claim about Bar Standards over-rules the responsibilities of the Italian Police and Prosecutor to follow Italian law, including CPP Article 331, which requires them to file a complaint with a prosecutor when a private person makes a report orally or in writing in accordance with CPP Article 333 to them of an alleged crime?

Bar Standard number one: is your first duty is to the court - so that covers respecting the penal code, court procedures and protocol.

Core Duty 2: You must act in the best interests of each client.

As an individual barrister, you should report:

your own serious misconduct (see rule rC65 and associated guidance) using our reporting form;
the serious misconduct of others (see rule rC66) using our reporting form;

https://www.barstandardsboard.org.u...t-do-i-have-to-report-or-tell-to-the-bsb.html

These are the British Bar Standards. Having seen the US Bar Standards, which are quite similar, I am confident you will find the same ethos in Italy's Bar Standards.

 

[Numbers]

It is arguable that Knox' passing reference to being slapped was a 'report', more a descriptive narrative about why she stood by her claim she named Lumumba. Some stuff about seeing him in flashing lights of green and in her head she thought this or that.

Vixen, your argument against Knox's statement being a report is invalid.

The document, Memoriale 1, written in English by Knox and given by her to the Perugia police, very clearly states that she had been hit on the head by a police officer when she didn't remember a "fact" "correctly", among other claims of mistreatment - for example, being threatened with arrest and imprisonment for 30 years. All this without a lawyer present. This type of interrogation is contrary to Italian law, for example, CPP Articles 63, 64, and 188.

The statements by Knox alleging some of the mistreatment by the police are written near the beginning of Memoriale 1, about 1/3 down from the top of the second hand-written page. No responsible Italian police officer with any integrity, able to read English (or reading an accurate translation) would misunderstand the meaning of Knox's statements as NOT falling under CPP Article 333.

Source:

http://amandaknoxcase.com/files/wp-...007-11-06-amanda-knox-memoriale-1-english.pdf

 

[Bill Williams]

It is true that Italy has a reputation for far right politics, for example, the Lega Nord and the current Meloni of the Italian Social Movement based on Mussolini-style fascism (= as in the true meaning of the word). Yes, it has strict anti-immigrant laws, and this is partly because of (a) the political parties in power, and (b) the fact that Italy being located where it is, is literally the first stop for many thousands of economic migrants and asylum seekers from Africa. However, it is still an EU country and has to abide by EU directives. For example, in the Equality Act.

The issue in respect of the US-based Friends of Amanda Knox and associated campaigners is what starkly highlights the attitude towards Guede and Lumumba (for example, this includes West Seattle Herald free newspaper, whose editor, Ken Robinson, who is the cousin of Knox' husband Chris (_?); the owner of a whole stable of newspaper titles was their grandfather: it regularly wrote articles smearing Mignini and the Italian police).

Whilst Knox herself isn't/wasn't what we'd call racist per se, there is the heavy bias of the FOAK-ers group think, even it it is 'unconscious bias'. This reveals itself in the fact Knox is an American citizen. She was the 'foreigner', as it were. Guede was the Italian (albeit having only a resident's permit). Lumumba had arrived in Perugia in 1980 to study Italian and Political Sciences, and was also some kind of a jazz musician who played drums and bongos. Yet to the group think of the FOAK-ers, the attitude was that Knox should be treated with privilege, whilst Lumumba and Guede were entirely dispensible. Some of the rhetoric about Lumumba has been quite shocking considering he was arrested under false pretences, thanks to the subverting of justice by Knox.

As an example of this type of the remnants of the feelings of entitlement based on race ('white supremacy' - horrible phrase but that is what racism is built on), there are the guys who wrote the short tract, 'The Forgotten Killer', putting forward a theory that Guede was the sole killer. As I recall, an independent witness said some Arabic-looking guy had run past her on the steps, possibly a suspect running away after the crime. In the aforesaid book, this description changes to, 'The police should look for a Sub-Saharan African'. Completely ignoring any evidence against Knox and Sollecito.
Likewise, Nina Burleigh, revels in describing the poverty of life in the Ivory Coast and the fact many of the children there are born out of wedlock and the Muslim-practising men have more than one wife. Completely ignoring the history of French colonisation that helped create those conditions in the first place. So the FOAK brigade demanded that Knox be freed because it was obvious that it was Guede who did it alone. Unfortunately, the Italian detectives - the wretched racists Numbers tries to paint them as - really didn't see that Knox and Sollecito were innocent at all.

So on the one hand we have this vociferous clamour that Knox is innocent from the FOAK-ers and all the objective scientific evidence is all fixed in some way or contaminated, whilst none of them could care less that Lumumba still has not received the €42,000 damages Knox was ordered to pay him.

Note how Lumumba had a whole group of Congolese supporters who demonstrated in protest against his arrest. Nobody came out and demonstrated when Knox and Sollecito were arrested.

Snore.

So there's a 'FOAK brigade', but at the same time 'Nobody came out and demonstrated when Knox and Sollecito were arrested'.

Vixen, pick a lane.

 

[acbytesla]

What's it going to take for this thread to die?

Do we know how many posts about AK, RS and MK have been made on JREF/ISF since Meredith was killed?

 

[Numbers]

Bar Standard number one: is your first duty is to the court - so that covers respecting the penal code, court procedures and protocol.

Core Duty 2: You must act in the best interests of each client.

As an individual barrister, you should report:

your own serious misconduct (see rule rC65 and associated guidance) using our reporting form;
the serious misconduct of others (see rule rC66) using our reporting form;

https://www.barstandardsboard.org.u...t-do-i-have-to-report-or-tell-to-the-bsb.html

These are the British Bar Standards. Having seen the US Bar Standards, which are quite similar, I am confident you will find the same ethos in Italy's Bar Standards.

Neither British nor US Bar Standards* apply in Italy. It's a sovereign country with its own laws and bar standards. So your statement is not evidence supporting your claim.

Furthermore, assuming a lawyer in Italy is required to report knowledge of police misconduct, since Knox herself reported the misconduct soon after the 6 November interrogation, and the police and prosecutor took no action, was any responsibility of her lawyers to immediately report or to report at a time that was in their client's best interests?

Since the lawyers reporting the official mistreatment prior to the beginning of the trial could have resulted in retaliation against Knox by the authorities, the lawyers and Knox were absolutely justified in waiting to make a full disclosure of the mistreatment in open court. This is a standard practice, allowed under ECHR case law, in cases where there is any potential for retaliation by the authorities.

Indeed, the Italian government objected to the ECHR admitting Knox's claim of a violation of Convention Article 3 based on their claim that Knox had failed to exhaust domestic remedies because she had not lodged any complaint with a public prosecutor or other authorities. Here's Italy's objection and the initial ECHR response:

116. Le Gouvernement soutient tout d’abord que la requérante a omis d’épuiser les voies de recours internes car elle n’aurait introduit aucune plainte devant le procureur ou les instances civiles. Selon lui, la requérante aurait pu aussi se plaindre des pressions qu’elle disait avoir subies au moment de son audition ou de l’audience de validation de son arrestation devant le juge pour les investigations préliminaires.

Edited by Agatha: 

Trimmed for rule 4

Contradicting the basis of Italy's objection, the ECHR pointed out the following:

124. Examinant le volet procédural du grief soulevé par la requérante, la Cour observe que, dans le texte rédigé à l’attention de la police vers 13 heures le 6 novembre 2007, soit quelques heures seulement après les déclarations incriminantes de l’intéressée formulées à l’encontre de D.L., celle-ci a clairement exposé l’état de choc et de confusion extrême dans lequel elle se serait trouvée (paragraphe 20 ci-dessus).

Edited by Agatha: 

Trimmed for rule 4

* There is no overall US Bar Standards for all the states and territories. Each state has its own bar association and its own rules. For the federal courts, each of the districts has its own rules, and the US Supreme Court has its own rules. The American Bar Association is one of several private organizations that may make recommendations, which may or may not be adopted by any US government or court system. You should clarify with a citation the specific US Bar Standards you saw.

Source:
https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-189422

 

[junkshop]

What's it going to take for this thread to die?

Do we know how many posts about AK, RS and MK have been made on JREF/ISF since Meredith was killed?

**** knows, I mean Knox and Sollecito were exonerated 7 years ago. Maybe Vixen didn't get that memo?

On the plus side, I've learned an awful lot about Italy's somewhat Kafkaesque legal system. That's been a bit of an eye-opener.