d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Have the trans-abled activists thought of calling the process of learning to accept healthy limbs "conversion therapy" yet?
Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)
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LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder. As, for example, is sexuality dysphoria (e.g. a man struggling to come to terms with his homosexuality).
Transgender identity, on the other hand, is not a mental health disorder (or the product of a disorder). Just as homosexuality is not a mental health disorder.
Hmmm. This sort of weasel "argument" rather smacks of something along the lines of "the reason why most lesbians are lesbians is due to them being too ugly and unappealing to have any hope of attracting a male sex/life partner".
But your post at least means I can now chalk you down too as someone who actually disavows the very concept of transgender identity as a valid lived condition. Perhaps I could trouble you to enlighten us with more detail on how/why transgender identity "can be false or subject to alternative interpretations". And I'll remind you that the actual experts in this field make a vast qualitative and diagnostic difference between gender identity and "extra leg identity".
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Valid lived condition
I ran a quick Google search and it just took me back here.
I've got a neighbor who worships Trump and thinks the last presidential election was stolen. Is that a valid lived condition?
I've got another neighbor who claims enlightenment can only be achieved by joining his cult. Is that a valid lived condition?
Back in the late 90s, I knew people who literally stockpiled for Y2K. Valid lived condition, or not?
I've met several people who consulted with psychics to talk to their deceased loved ones. Valid lived condition?
My dog thinks it's okay to sniff people's junk. Valid lived condition?
ETA: If you're going to hinge your argument on a phrase no one else uses, you should take the trouble to define it.
Has anyone ever explained what this means?
I ran a quick Google search and it just took me back here.
I've got a neighbor who worships Trump and thinks the last presidential election was stolen. Is that a valid lived condition?
I've got another neighbor who claims enlightenment can only be achieved by joining his cult. Is that a valid lived condition?
Back in the late 90s, I knew people who literally stockpiled for Y2K. Valid lived condition, or not?
I've met several people who consulted with psychics to talk to their deceased loved ones. Valid lived condition?
My dog thinks it's okay to sniff people's junk. Valid lived condition?
ETA: If you're going to hinge your argument on a phrase no one else uses, you should take the trouble to define it.
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The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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Absolute genius!
Transgender identity is gender dysphoria.
Orwell would have loved this stuff. Pure doublethink.
_______________________
Does anyone else see a correlation between idiotic demands made by trans activists and the rise of hate crime against trans people, teachers and medical personnel?
It looks to me like the harder activists push, the more likely some nutcase is to gun down a doctor prescribing hormones.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Is there any evidence of a rise in hate crime against trans people?
The Atheist
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Srsly?
You've been in this thread for a couple of years and aren't even aware of the most basic points?
Of course they've risen, and it was so obvious that I didn't bother citing the evidence, but since your Google is broken, here's some starters for 10.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-62413792
https://www.king5.com/article/news/...nity/281-5b3b1580-5759-40d2-9912-fef5c15c7b12
https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal...r-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2021
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Is it a massive wave?
Rolfe
Adult human female
Srsly, you've been on the forum for decades and you haven't learned to interogate the evidence provided?
First one. Reported hate crimes. Sorry, when it gets to the point that misgendering is regarded as a hate crime and "literal violence" then I'm not at all surprised at this statistic. The crybullies are in full cry, and the police are brainwashed to treat them as the ultimate victims. Of course, if you yourself regard the sort of trivial incident that's now being reported as a hate crime as an actual hate crime then mea culpa, you're probably right.
Second one I can't access.
Third one. Murders of trans and "gender non-conforming" people in the USA (I think). I can't see anything there about the motives or reasons for the murders. Trans and gender non-conforming people get murdered like the rest of the population. Drilling down into the statistics in Britain has shown that in fact trans people are murdered at a significantly lower rate per capita than either men or women. The safest thing a man can do to avoid being murdered, statistically, is to become a transwoman.
The other point that came out of that research was that it was nigh-on impossible to find a case where someone had been murdered because they were trans. It was the usual litany of domestic violence, quarrels and drug deals gone wrong, mostly. No doubt there is the odd case, but massive epidemic of actual hate and actual violence against trans people seems conspicuous by its absence.
ETA: Here's an example of how the "hate crime" statistics are being inflated. https://twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1570399132271149056
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Ziggurat
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In addition, it's reports against LGBT, not just T, so we don't know what the breakdown is.
Headline is "Hate crimes against transgender people are spiking, data shows". The data being referenced comes from here:
https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2020-hate-crimes-statistics
Reported hate crimes on the basis of gender identity went from 198 in 2019 to 266 in 2020.
I have two immediate problems with the conclusion Atheist draws from this. First, with just two data points we've got no idea whether this is a real trend or if it's just noise. Second, there was also a drop of similar magnitude (in absolute numbers) in reported hate crimes on the basis of sexual orientation (1195 to 1110). I can't help but wonder if this is partly just a shift in categorization from sexual orientation to gender identity.
And that's not even touching on problems of what constitutes a hate crime and whether reported incidents are an accurate measure of them.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Since the police in Britain are now recording the retweeting of a silly rhyme as a hate crime (oh sorry, that one was a "non-crime hate incident" so maybe it wasn't counted?) because someone complained to them that they were offended by it, what do you think is causing the supposed uptick?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
In a word: Wokeness.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Earlier in the thread people have linked to one or two examples of trans people being physically assaulted purely for being trans, but it's not easy to find such incidents. I am very far from being convinced that there is any "rise in hate crime against trans people".
Verbal abuse is very difficult to assess, because that could be anything from a vicious tirade against the "
tranny" to a shop assistant innocently addressing a transwoman as "sir". Again, I'm far from convinced that there is any epidemic, or indeed increase, in deliberate rudeness to trans people simply because they are trans.
Verbal abuse is very difficult to assess, because that could be anything from a vicious tirade against the "
tranny" to a shop assistant innocently addressing a transwoman as "sir". Again, I'm far from convinced that there is any epidemic, or indeed increase, in deliberate rudeness to trans people simply because they are trans.d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Came across this beauty just today; it's apparently "woke AF" to make a show of rejecting the TERGs.
I don't think "true Earth" means "flat Earth" in this context. It means they're using polar projections that, instead of exaggerating the area of high-latitude regions, exaggerate the area of equatorial regions.
If this is indeed "woke AF" then perhaps the following definition is useful:
woke (adj.): having the qualities of the second wrong that supposedly makes a right
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I think the polar projection is the one preferred by 21st c. flat earthers, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Flat-Earth-Dome-Display-Model/dp/B07W3GFRKB
That said, I've no idea about the (non-ironic?) intent behind the jewelry.
The Atheist
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Poison the well much?
It's not just misgendering. Even if some is misgendering, the increase is across the board and you're attempting to downplay it because it doesn't fit your agenda.
That's convenient.
Ah, the old "unless the perp admits it was driven by transphobia, I won't accept it"
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93akz3/lgbtq-hate-crimes
Baloney.
It's an example of one Tweet being used falsely to support an incorrect conclusion. No police report was made and it's not counted in any statistic.
There are literally hundreds of reputable publications saying hate crimes against trans have risen, but like I always say, you can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into, so I don't intend to waste more time explaining it to you.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/02610183211063402
Not that I'm aware of. I'm not really sure why they use the term 'trans-abled' instead of 'trans-disabled'. Surely it should be 'trans-disabled people are disabled' rather than 'trans-abled people are disabled'?
Rolfe
Adult human female
Nope. You do not get to claim that self-reported "hate crimes" which could well be someone being addressed as "sir" by a waiter, or murders that were in all probability motivated by all the usual things that motivate murders constitute a rise in criminality specifically directed at trans people.
I'll repeat, if you look at the actual murder statistics in this country, trans people are the safest demographic there is, on a per capita basis. Men are most likely to be murdered, then women, then trans people. Statistically, the best thing a man can do to avoid being murdered is to become a transwoman.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
transwomen:woman::transabled:abled I think.
‘How dare you pretend to be disabled?’
'For anti-ableist activists, transabled people do not count as disabled. They are perceived to: be falsely disabled; steal resources from disabled people; and be disrespectful by denying, fetishizing, or appropriating marginalized realities.'
Seems to be clear the objection is to not being counted as genuinely disabled?
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