• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vixen said:
The issue is not whether death and rape threats are right or wrong.
Click to expand...
Evidently it isn't an issue for you. Or to misogynists in general.

The real question is, why has JK Rowling gone to the Daily Mail instead of the police about all of these death threats she claims to have had?
Click to expand...
No that isn't the real question. Unless you are a misogynist.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm sure he does. Playing a contact sport with teenage girls and getting undressed where they are undressing would make most men happy.
Click to expand...

Marjolein has had major surgery and intensive hormone treatment. She has a Gender Recognition Certificate. If she really only just wanted to hang around 20-something women, she could do that at a nightclub (heaven knows there are plenty of middle-aged men sniffing around!) no need to go to all that trouble and psychological distress.

If the other players are told that she is transgender then of course they can have the option of avoiding her.
 
Vixen said:
Maybe Marjolein just wants to be happy.
Click to expand...

Many people want to be happy at the expense of others. We generally frown on this. We generally make exceptions when we see a great need, and see no better solution.

So now it's up to you to justify changing the status quo. What is Marjolein's great need, and why is this the best solution?
 
Vixen said:
Marjolein has had major surgery and intensive hormone treatment. She has a Gender Recognition Certificate. If she really only just wanted to hang around 20-something women, she could do that at a nightclub (heaven knows there are plenty of middle-aged men sniffing around!) no need to go to all that trouble and psychological distress.

If the other players are told that she is transgender then of course they can have the option of avoiding her.
Click to expand...


It's irrelevant that he has had cosmetic surgery and takes synthetic hormones. He is a man and that cannot be changed. It is inevitable that the girls in the team will perceive him as a man because men still look like men after genital surgery. It is also inevitable that he will be much stronger than these girls, whatever delusions he harbours about his physical state. You can no more reverse male puberty than you can unbake a (beef)cake.

And how do the girls go about avoiding him when they have to get changed and he's in the changing room leering at them?
 
Last edited:
Manger Douse said:
The actual words were: (being allowed to change with under 20 yo female team mates is) 'The best gift I could get.'

https://www.vpro.nl/programmas/tegenlicht/lees/artikelen/2022/Marjolein-Schepers-.html
Click to expand...

Im kind of an unbiased third party in this thread, cause my views on the subject are in flux and very open to change, but I must say the lack of critical thinking skills employed by some of the chief posters in this thread is distressing.

The actual words were in Dutch, and as anyone who knows anything at all about language knows, even when untranslated, phrase meanings depend on context. Translation makes it even more challenging to draw conclusions. But bere, the meaning seems pretty clear from the acxtual quote in the article.

Actual quote:
...For the first time, she did not have to change in a separate room while playing for the team in Lisse, but was welcome in the women’s dressing room, which she described as “the best gift I could get.”

If you know basic grammar, the "best gift" is referring to being "welcomed in the women's dressing room"
If you can accept that He/she/they want to be accepted as a woman, then the gift of acceptance seems pretty reasonable and non-nefarious.

I have to agree with Vixen here.
 
Vixen said:
Marjolein has had major surgery and intensive hormone treatment. She has a Gender Recognition Certificate. If she really only just wanted to hang around 20-something women, she could do that at a nightclub (heaven knows there are plenty of middle-aged men sniffing around!) no need to go to all that trouble and psychological distress.
Click to expand...

Why is causing distress to others the best way to treat her own psychological distress?
 
theprestige said:
Many people want to be happy at the expense of others. We generally frown on this. We generally make exceptions when we see a great need, and see no better solution.

So now it's up to you to justify changing the status quo. What is Marjolein's great need, and why is this the best solution?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I also think it is up to *you* to demonstrate that others' happiness is being destroyed, and not simply because they feel unhappy because of their own personal biases. If I hate a certain race or sex for example, I can't just say I am unhappy that someone of that group is allowed in my presence. And there has to be actual evidence of the reason for your unhappiness.
 
stanfr said:
Im kind of an unbiased third party in this thread, cause my views on the subject are in flux and very open to change, but I must say the lack of critical thinking skills employed by some of the chief posters in this thread is distressing.

The actual words were in Dutch, and as anyone who knows anything at all about language knows, even when untranslated, phrase meanings depend on context. Translation makes it even more challenging to draw conclusions. But bere, the meaning seems pretty clear from the acxtual quote in the article.

Actual quote:
...For the first time, she did not have to change in a separate room while playing for the team in Lisse, but was welcome in the women’s dressing room, which she described as “the best gift I could get.”

If you know basic grammar, the "best gift" is referring to being "welcomed in the women's dressing room"
If you can accept that He/she/they want to be accepted as a woman, then the gift of acceptance seems pretty reasonable and non-nefarious.

I have to agree with Vixen here.
Click to expand...

I was correcting Vixens quote
 
Manger Douse said:
How can giving the correct quote be wrong?
Click to expand...

Your modification, paraphrasing was wrong:

"being allowed to change with under 20 yo female team mates"


That was NOT what the quote referred to, and how it is described in context changes the meaning, obviously in a negative way. It's deceptive.
 
stanfr said:
Your modification, paraphrasing was wrong:

"being allowed to change with under 20 yo female team mates"


That was NOT what the quote referred to, and how it is described in context changes the meaning, obviously in a negative way. It's deceptive.
Click to expand...

Ok, so prove that they were accepted by the under 20 female football team into the changing rooms and not just allowed
 
Manger Douse said:
Ok, so prove that they were accepted by the under 20 female football team into the changing rooms and not just allowed
Click to expand...

LOL, how long you been here? You know about Burden of Proof?

My statement was proven by the quote in question, in the article in question.
If you have proof they were not welcomed, present it!

My point is that by manipulating the meaning, you are doing it in a disingenuous way. Stick to the facts.
 
Last edited:
stanfr said:
LOL, how long you been here? You know about Burden of Proof?

My statement was proven by the quote in question, in the article in question.
If you have proof they were not welcomed, present it!
Click to expand...

I don't accept the words of a 31 year old man who wants to get changed with under 21 year old girls. I'll be sure to turn in my sceptical badge in the morning
 
Rolfe said:
It's irrelevant that he has had cosmetic surgery and takes synthetic hormones. He is a man and that cannot be changed. It is inevitable that the girls in the team will perceive him as a man because men still look like men after genital surgery. It is also inevitable that he will be much stronger than these girls, whatever delusions he harbours about his physical state. You can no more reverse male puberty than you can unbake a (beef)cake.

And how do the girls go about avoiding him when they have to get changed and he's in the changing room leering at them?
Click to expand...

These are the unproven assumptions (that seem to be all over this thread from otherwise rational people) that I really find unfortunate in a skeptics forum. Seriously hurts your argument, which I otherwise have a lot of sympathy for.
 
Manger Douse said:
I don't accept the words of a 31 year old man who wants to get changed with under 21 year old girls. I'll be sure to turn in my sceptical badge in the morning
Click to expand...

That's perfectly fine. Then don't substitute your own biased conclusions in his place unless you have the evidence to back them up. STICK TO THE FACTS
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom