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Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)

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Manger Douse said:
Ok then - just unequivocally state that rape and death threats are serious, wrong, and not just childish giggles
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Please do not quote me out of context. Fransesca R presented an example of a threat (I presume one she made up) which said 'She needs raping'. I remarked that such an illiterate tweet was likely written by an idiot and advised her to report such threats to the police under the Malicious Communications Act and to report it to Twitter and block the account.


You and Franscesca R are so desperate to make JK Rowling a martyr of the cause you have to blatantly lie and pretend that I condone abusive tweets.

Stop it. It is intellectually dishonest. I suspect you are trolling for the fun of it.
 
Vixen said:
Please do not quote me out of context. Fransesca R presented an example of a threat (I presume one she made up) which said 'She needs raping'. I remarked that such an illiterate tweet was likely written by an idiot and advised her to report such threats to the police under the Malicious Communications Act and to report it to Twitter and block the account.


You and Franscesca R are so desperate to make JK Rowling a martyr of the cause you have to blatantly lie and pretend that I condone abusive tweets.

Stop it. It is intellectually dishonest. I suspect you are trolling for the fun of it.
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I didn't quote you. Are rape and death threats serous or not?
 
Myriad said:
Well, not when they're against someone she doesn't like, obviously!
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It's sadly not uncommon with Trans Rights Advocates on this forum:

And there were of course plenty of well-documented terrorist-style incidents carried out by black civil rights activists, and female suffragettes, and other unfairly-oppressed groups. So, go figure......
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13663127&postcount=2648

LondonJohn talking about a protest where Trans Rights Advocates gathered outside a rape crisis center to demand rape victims be raped again
 
Vixen said:
I have never condoned death or rape threats. I have never said anyone deserved either.
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Incorrect. Click back. I took your posts apart, you had every opportunity to rebut me but you chose not to, because you couldn't. You essentially already admitted what I allege. Click back.

Specifically you have said you regard rape/death threats as childish giggles and described JK Rowling's receipt of hundreds of them as a brouhaha that she was the agent provocateur in bringing about, and she was acting a wounded innocent. Click back, it's all there, from you.

It is a deeply misogynistic view. You couldn't be more of a cheerleader for patriarchy if you tried. I suspect this is why you're keen on toxic trans rights activism.
 
Vixen said:
Let's take one step at a time. We need to establish why we need sex segregation first.
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Fringe reset again. This has been detailed many times over in the thread already. I'm not in the mood to rehash it all.

You are free to tell me why YOU think sex segregation is justified or, it you think it isn't, why it isn't. Then YOU can go from there to make your argument.
 
Vixen said:
I am not a Trans Rights Advocate.
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Even though you exhibit all the same woo style of argumentation as the TRAs. But this doesn't mean you're a TRA. It just means that trans rights, as articulated by the mainstream TRA lobby, is essentially a woo belief system.

I am entirely neutral.
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No you are not. By embracing a woo style of argumentation, you are effectively coming out in support of the TRAs. Your arguments do not seek a neutral or fact-based conclusion. They reinforce and perpetuate the fallacies and dishonesties embraced by the mainstream TRA lobby.

ETA: I'll even make a prediction. Soon, someone will point out that sex segregation in women's sports is important for reasons of safety and fairness, and you will respond by dismissing women's sports as unimportant and easily sacrificed on the altar of trans inclusion. After that, it will be another fringe reset on the question of whether sexual dimorphism in mammals is even real at all.
 
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Francesca R said:
Incorrect. Click back. I took your posts apart, you had every opportunity to rebut me but you chose not to, because you couldn't. You essentially already admitted what I allege. Click back.

Specifically you have said you regard rape/death threats as childish giggles and described JK Rowling's receipt of hundreds of them as a brouhaha that she was the agent provocateur in bringing about, and she was acting a wounded innocent. Click back, it's all there, from you.

It is a deeply misogynistic view. You couldn't be more of a cheerleader for patriarchy if you tried. I suspect this is why you're keen on toxic trans rights activism.
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I have asked you before to quote me in context. Picking out selected phrases and then rearranging them to deliberately change the meaning and thrust of what I actually said is scurrilous and an insult to the reader.

Er, I have a diploma from Birkbeck in Women's Studies. I have actually studied feminist thought and gender politics. I will not be taking lectures from you about misogyny.

You are so prejudiced, you are convinced that anyone who does not agree with you must in some way be an utter wretch and reprobate. In my case, you have labelled me a 'misogynist' in order to browbeat and intimidate people into accepting your view. It is manipulative and fundamentally dishonest to deliberately misquote others. If you were a policeman you would be fitting me up for a crime because that is how much integrity your method of dissemblance has.

I have not said death and rape threats are all right. You are being less than frank.
 
Ziggurat said:
Fringe reset again. This has been detailed many times over in the thread already. I'm not in the mood to rehash it all.

You are free to tell me why YOU think sex segregation is justified or, it you think it isn't, why it isn't. Then YOU can go from there to make your argument.
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Unlike yourself (and Braverman) I don't see it as a self-evident truth.
 
theprestige said:
Even though you exhibit all the same woo style of argumentation as the TRAs. But this doesn't mean you're a TRA. It just means that trans rights, as articulated by the mainstream TRA lobby, is essentially a woo belief system.


No you are not. By embracing a woo style of argumentation, you are effectively coming out in support of the TRAs. Your arguments do not seek a neutral or fact-based conclusion. They reinforce and perpetuate the fallacies and dishonesties embraced by the mainstream TRA lobby.

ETA: I'll even make a prediction. Soon, someone will point out that sex segregation in women's sports is important for reasons of safety and fairness, and you will respond by dismissing women's sports as unimportant and easily sacrificed on the altar of trans inclusion. After that, it will be another fringe reset on the question of whether sexual dimorphism in mammals is even real at all.
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As for sport, the number of people who reach the elite level of Olympic standard, national standard or even local athletics club standard is vanishingly minute. Yes, at those levels, nano-second differences count, as do millimetres in a pole vault or high jump.

Yes, of course there have to be standards so that sport is as fair as possible. If a transgender person is talented at athletics to such high standards, is it fair to prevent them from competing? ISTM to so much fairer to think of a way they can exercise their talents but in a fair way.
 
Vixen said:
Yes, of course there have to be standards so that sport is as fair as possible. If a transgender person is talented at athletics to such high standards, is it fair to prevent them from competing? ISTM to so much fairer to think of a way they can exercise their talents but in a fair way.
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We have already figured out a way for transwomen to exercise their talents in fair competition: They compete with their fellow males.
 
Vixen said:
Let's take one step at a time. We need to establish why we need sex segregation first.
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No, we don't. That is an entirely separate issue; if you wish to discuss the need of sex segregation, we should have a different thread.

This issue is about self-declared transgender people being able to go into areas designated for the opposite sex only. TRAs do not want sex segregated spaces eradicated, they want to be recognized differently so they can use the segregated area whenever they want, no matter who might object.

I see no reason that anyone should have their access to a safe space taken away because of a person's personal identity. I don't get to go into many places because of my characteristics; this doesn't change simply because my personal views conflict.

I might agree with abandoning sex segregation in certain places. But as long as we do have this type of segregation in society, individuals shouldn't get to ignore these limitations simply because of their own needs, any more than I should be able to attend kindergarten because I feel like a child.
 
theprestige said:
We have already figured out a way for transwomen to exercise their talents in fair competition: They compete with their fellow males.
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So we are back to the segregated bus again.

So suppose Bill Clinton gets on. He looks all white but he has some African ancestry (or so he claims). Does he really have to choose one part of the bus over the other? If he sits at the front, can he be arrested under the one-drop rule, or if he sits at the back is he being made to feel ashamed of his ethnicity? Where in the bus should the non-binary person sit?

Or do you think it is all right for him to decide for himself?


Now change the terms to 'female', 'male' and 'transgender' you will be forcing that person, Billie, to sit with the men...?
 
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