The Russian Invasion of Ukraine Part 4

[Childlike Empress]

There is a nice little comedy series where Zelenski is played by some dwarf in a green t-shirt, and Kadyrov is played by Kadyrov. Four episodes by now. I would link to it but of course you can't link to it in the "western" media bubble. Cancelled. So go to Telegram or vKontakte if you want to have a laugh.

 

[sackett]

Why piss around with crap like that when they are being equipped with very effective NATO hardware and are getting extensive training from the USA and UK in both effective tactics and strategy to use that equipment?

I've dealt before with retired officers, so your slight impairment doesn't surprise me. But it pains me a bit.

I'm not proposing that Ukraine divert any resources into developing new tech. I'm suggesting that we, the west, the guys who aren't bleeding, begin right now to develop larger, cheaper kamikaze uav's, optimized for demolishing Russian logistic efforts.

Larger: 100 to 200 kilo warheads
Cheaper: utilizing shelf components and materials
Optimized: existing hard and software for command/control; small powerplants; reduced range/loiter times; simplified tactics
Smacking Russian resources: see above re larger warheads and simpler tactics

If somebody wants to exploit gliding uav's (which already exist) with no sound or IR signature, then lettum gopher it.

 

[theprestige]

Actually, designating Russia a state sponsor of terrorism triggers new sanctions under the NDAA of 2019 and the Export Control Act. Most financial institutions in Russia would fall under sanction as opposed to the specific institutions sanctioned now. The designation also complicates financial relationships Russia has with third countries, forcing nations who did not participate in sanctions to restrict business dealings. An institution that deals with a financial institution in a SST designated country won't do business with the US.

For companies still doing business with or in Russia, it puts their ability to do business with the US at risk. An SST designation also adds more material to the list of things you can't sell to Russia, complicating their ability to recover from their losses. More importantly, it holds at risk any company, anywhere selling dual use material to Russia. You can do business with a country whose economy is half the size of California's or the largest economy on earth.

All good stuff. I just don't think that "going in there" is such a great idea.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I've dealt before with retired officers, so your slight impairment doesn't surprise me. But it pains me a bit.

I'm not proposing that Ukraine divert any resources into developing new tech. I'm suggesting that we, the west, the guys who aren't bleeding, begin right now to develop larger, cheaper kamikaze uav's, optimized for demolishing Russian logistic efforts.

Larger: 100 to 200 kilo warheads
Cheaper: utilizing shelf components and materials
Optimized: existing hard and software for command/control; small powerplants; reduced range/loiter times; simplified tactics
Smacking Russian resources: see above re larger warheads and simpler tactics

If somebody wants to exploit gliding uav's (which already exist) with no sound or IR signature, then lettum gopher it.

Who was an officer?

Gamer fantasy.

 

[gnome]

All good stuff. I just don't think that "going in there" is such a great idea.

Not snarking: Did you change your opinion on this? I thought you had argued that if we would be willing to directly intervene in an invasion of a NATO country that we should go ahead and do so in Ukraine. I may have misunderstood or be remembering someone else, so I'm not complaining, just trying to connect.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Your heroes can't actually hit trenches, so they make do with murdering 4 year old girls in shopping centres.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62181726

Nice company you keep there, Ruscist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/vyvj6f/the_last_instagram_story_of_the_girl_who_died/

Video taken of Lisa just before she died

 

[sackett]

My mistake. You worked for a living.

Who was an officer?

Gamer fantasy.

Cap'n, I'm 80 years old. I've never played a 'puter game in all that time. (Okay, a primitive Tanks arcade game in my fave bistro 50-some years ago. Go ahead, count that against me.)

What I am is a survivor of the 20th century.* I keep up with the frightful technologies. Nothing I posted above is fanciful. Hell most of it -- all of it, I expect -- is either underway now or is already old stuff to the engineers.

Bombardment UAVs are a coming thing. They'll be used in this war. Hope you marked my words.

* Which isn't over yet. I wish there was a god to help us.

 

[theprestige]

Not snarking: Did you change your opinion on this? I thought you had argued that if we would be willing to directly intervene in an invasion of a NATO country that we should go ahead and do so in Ukraine. I may have misunderstood or be remembering someone else, so I'm not complaining, just trying to connect.

I'm talking about regime change in Russia by foreign military intervention.

 

[gnome]

I'm talking about regime change in Russia by foreign military intervention.

Ahh! Okay, that adds up now. Thank you.

 

[jimbob]

Cap'n, I'm 80 years old. I've never played a 'puter game in all that time. (Okay, a primitive Tanks arcade game in my fave bistro 50-some years ago. Go ahead, count that against me.)

What I am is a survivor of the 20th century.* I keep up with the frightful technologies. Nothing I posted above is fanciful. Hell most of it -- all of it, I expect -- is either underway now or is already old stuff to the engineers.

Bombardment UAVs are a coming thing. They'll be used in this war. Hope you marked my words.
* Which isn't over yet. I wish there was a god to help us.

We already have some in this war, and as they get cheaper, it will be worth putting them on smaller and more numerous drones, or to riff on the terminology of The Culture, "knife missiles" that drones would sometimes carry.

The idea of missiles over the battlefield in readiness for targets of opportunity is not new, although in the 1980s it was more, "rod of God" rather than battery powered propeller craft.

I think they could be the most significant new factor in how land war is fought since the tank. An individual infantry soldier with the ability to precisely place even the equivalent of a grenade anywhere in a 10km radius, say five times in a patrol, for example.

 

[theprestige]

That's not an individual infantryman task, though. Under ideal conditions, that's a whole squad or section.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Cap'n, I'm 80 years old. I've never played a 'puter game in all that time. (Okay, a primitive Tanks arcade game in my fave bistro 50-some years ago. Go ahead, count that against me.)

What I am is a survivor of the 20th century.* I keep up with the frightful technologies. Nothing I posted above is fanciful. Hell most of it -- all of it, I expect -- is either underway now or is already old stuff to the engineers.

Bombardment UAVs are a coming thing. They'll be used in this war. Hope you marked my words.

* Which isn't over yet. I wish there was a god to help us.

No.

 

[sarge]

That's not an individual infantryman task, though. Under ideal conditions, that's a whole squad or section.

Maybe, maybe not. Placing a rifle fired grenade anywhere in a 250m area on demand is an individual task for an infantryman. Firing a Javelin at a tank anywhere within 1000m is an individual infantryman’s task. I can certainly see some infantry squads being equipped with small recon drones, why not lightly armed drones? But yeah, having a weapons squad that employs armed UAVs is more likely, at least in the US Infantry. Even more likely is that such weapons will belong to a branch other than infantry and will be consolidated at Battalion (or higher) level.

In Ukraine, who knows? Rapid fielding with concurrent training leads to strange MTOEs.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I am sure an infantryman is going to enjoy humping a drone around with him in addition to the other gear he is already carrying.

Sci Fi gaming.

 

[Andy_Ross]

More vintage Russian T-62M tanks were destroyed in the East today along with a BTR-80

What will the museums have left to display?

 

[jimbob]

That's not an individual infantryman task, though. Under ideal conditions, that's a whole squad or section.

Not now, but it's weight, bulk, and cost that's preventing that. Those are changing. Especially if you are thinking of mechanised infantry

 

[Andy_Ross]

It's all irrelevant bollocks to the current war.

Maybe in some theoretical fantasy conflict it might be possible but it has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine.

 

[sackett]

Not now, but it's weight, bulk, and cost that's preventing that. Those are changing. Especially if you are thinking of mechanised infantry

I'm not thinking of infantry weapons (although a switchblade 300 only weighs ca. 2.5 kilos) but rather of separate drone forces held at division or even corps level. In my opinion these drones would have to be large enough to pack a 100-200 kilo warhead, feasible in the absence of elaborate observation and navigation equipment and large fuel loads -- and landing gear, when they're deployed by aircraft.

These must be specialized flying munitions. If some bright boy can build an adequate model out of wood and fabric, well give him a medal.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I'm not thinking of infantry weapons (although a switchblade 300 only weighs ca. 2.5 kilos) but rather of separate drone forces held at division or even corps level. In my opinion these drones would have to be large enough to pack a 100-200 kilo warhead, feasible in the absence of elaborate observation and navigation equipment and large fuel loads -- and landing gear, when they're deployed by aircraft.

These must be specialized flying munitions. If some bright boy can build an adequate model out of wood and fabric, well give him a medal.

They already exist, they are called missiles, rockets and artillery shells.

how big a drone do you think you would need to fly a 200kg warhead?

 

[sackett]

Light plane size?

They already exist, they are called missiles, rockets and artillery shells.

how big a drone do you think you would need to fly a 200kg warhead?

Come now, capt., I'm in Marketing and Sales, not Geeks and Dilberts -- excuse me, Engineering. Client comes to me, says, "Ve vant blow tings up, Rahssian tings. Must be chip. Must be qviet. Stealty if possible. You can do, yiss?"

Of course I give them that good old Yankee "Can do!" and notify Engg. as soon as the deposit clears. Then Engg. calls India, Israel, Turkey, whoever, and they put their best guys to work. Good old $$$$ really focus a man's mind, believe you ME.

Rollout in 6 months I tell the client. (The Dilberts don't need to know.) Meanwhile, mockup training goes forward. Remember what Thoreau said: "Simulate, simulate, simulate!"

Over budget milestones are soon met. Clever solutions to insoluble (for us) problems are bought after minimally necessary delays. Combat beta testing in one year!



How the hell do you think these things are done?