The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

No. In the words that you like to use “All of your claims are rejected” … “all that you have said is untrue, and proved … and it cannot be denied” ... "Your posts are all false and useless fraud".

Here is a link with a short extract of it's quote describing what you claimed to be essential as verses 7 to 11 -


https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=7&verse=11&to=18

Islamicstudies.info
Tafheem.net*
Towards Understanding the Quran
With kind permission:*Islamic Foundation UK
Introduction to Tafheem*|*Glossary*|*Verbs

Other resources:*Maarif*|*Dawat*

*Surah Al-A'raf 7:11-18*[2/24]*↕

Recite
*|
وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنٰكُمۡ ثُمَّ صَوَّرۡنٰكُمۡ ثُمَّ قُلۡنَا لِلۡمَلٰۤـئِكَةِ اسۡجُدُوۡا لِاٰدَمَ​ ۖ  فَسَجَدُوۡۤا اِلَّاۤ اِبۡلِيۡسَؕ لَمۡ يَكُنۡ مِّنَ السّٰجِدِيۡنَ‏ *

*
Recent Verses:
7:11-18

(7:11) We initiated your creation, then We gave you each a shape, and then We said to the angels: 'Prostrate before Adam.')*10*They all prostrated except Iblis: he was not one of those who fell Prostrate.
10. These verses should he read in conjunction with (al-Baqarah 2: 30-9). The words in which the command to prostrate before Adam is mentioned may give rise to the misapprehension that it was Adam as such who is the object of prostration. This misapprehension should be removed by what has been said here. The text makes it very clear that prostration before Adam was in his capacity, as the representative of all mankind and not in his personal capacity.

The successive stages of man's creation mentioned in the present verse ('We initiated your creation, then We gave you each a shape'), means that God first planned the creation of man, made ready the necessary materials for it, and then gave those materials a human form. Then, when man had assumed the status of a living being, God asked the angels to prostrate before him. The Qur'an says: And recall when your Lord said to the angels: 'I am about to create man from clay. When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit then fall You down in prostration before him' (Sad 38: 71-2).

Mention has been made in these verses, though in a difterent way, of the same three stages of creation: man's creation from clay; giving him a proportionate human shape; and bringing Adam into existence by breathing into him God's spirit. The following verses also have the same import:

And recall when your Lord said to the angels: 'I am about to create man, from sounding clay moulded into shape from black mud. When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall you all down in prostration before him' (al-Hijr 15: 28-9).


The above says exactly everything that I have pointed out to you. It says exactly what all Islamic scholars had always said before the 1970's sudden idea of claiming “Ijaz” occurred to certain Islamic fundamentalists …

… it makes absolutely clear that the words of the Quran declare that Allah himself says that he directly formed the first Humans from wet clay, and that he formed the humans whole and complete … there is no abiogenesis or anything remotely like that described in the Quran.

And by the way, I don't think you responded to or acknowledged the fact that as I pointed out in a post just a page back – the belief that Mankind was created out of “mud” or “clay” was already claimed in dozens of religions hundreds and thousands of years before the Quran or any Islam ever existed …

… that means without doubt that the Quran and it's writers simply copied their creation story from what had been believed in all those earlier religions (they all believed that their god had created the first humans by forming a whole human to a full shape in wet moulding clay!). The Quran is simply a copy of those previous religions.

And by the way my previous long post already explained that all which you have said from your Quran about abiogenesis, is completely wrong as far modern science knows. You simply have no understanding of what has been said in science about possible models of abiogenesis (such as deep sea hydrothermal vents).

And also - I dont think you responded to or explained or answered that crucial question of whether you and your fellow Ijaz believers began claiming science in the Quaran, before or only AFTER the science had all been published so that everyone then knew about it? I'm going to repeat that as a set of specfic questions which you must answer ("must" because otherwise all of your claims here are dead & buried as nothing more that the usual ignorant religious Islamic miracle ranting) -

1. why does the Quran repeat the same story as religions from thousands of years earlier which also believed that Man was created whole from wet clay/mud?
2. at what date did any Islamic Ijaz believers first say Man had occured through a process of evolution ... please produce books or papers showing that they were saying this before Darwin told everyone in 1859.

3. same as question 2 but for all of the science you have claimed to be hidden in the Quran - please produce Islamic books or papers where any scientific claim made by Muslim writers was published BEFORE the science was all well known ... eg produce Islamic books or papers describing relativity BEFORE the work of Einstein was published between 1905 to 1915.

Hello dear philosopher
Because you are trying to continue this Qur'anic discussion. And you take your time, thank you very much.

Dear philosopher
The translation and interpretation of all Islamologists - missionaries - Islamic institutions, etc. for the Qur'an is based on the understanding of the past. it's old. Not updated. This movement has started almost 300 years ago to update the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an in Islamic societies. It was all for political purposes. Therefore, the text of the Qur'an has been studied in the same old way. And its new concepts have nothing new to say. Modern science is not in it. While in most Quranic verses there is a message of modern science. And it is perfectly visible.

My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere else.
Unfortunately, we never tried to look at the Qur'an scientifically. And our reference and sources have been the views of the past. And it does not make sense. The Qur'an must be removed from scientific abandonment. And then he understood its meaning and interpretation. Translators and interpreters of the Qur'an must first understand the simple meaning of all Qur'anic words. Then review new scientific material. And see what verse is said about modern science.
Of course, the effort of the translators of the Qur'an so far is only to translate the "principled and solid verses" of the Qur'an. The basic verses of the Qur'an are related to the rules of worship. Its meaning is simple and clear. It is always fixed and does not change. We do not discuss these verses of the Qur'an. And it is quite acceptable. And that's right. And it is necessary for us Muslims.
But I am talking about "similar verses" of the Qur'an. Each word has more than 10 different meanings. And the meaning of the word in these verses must be chosen at any time according to the scientific situation of the time. To show the true meaning of the verse and modern science. No effort has been made so far.


My research in this area is unique. Studying and researching similar verses of the Qur'an and discovering the contents of modern science in it, in addition to mastering the simple meaning of words, is in dire need of relatively complete information about modern science. Unfortunately, none of the Qur'anic translators and preachers sought knowledge of modern science. And unfortunately they are not interested. And this is the big problem in "updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an".
My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere.
Therefore, your efforts, dear philosopher, in this regard are in vain. You also cite old translations. And even "Ijaz" is old. None of this is valid in updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an. And is rejected.

Our translators are still living in the seventh century !! And they do not try to make their translation have a say for the twentieth century !! There are several reasons for this wrong approach. Unfortunately, our translators do not have the courage to come up with a theory for a modern translation of the Qur'an. These are the forms of us Muslims and Islamic societies. I ask you not to refer to old or even new Islamic sources (which means the old filtered meaning) in any way to translate "similar verses" of the Qur'an. My translation is up to date. Please have the courage to just read and think about it. I have told you this many times in this thread. I say it again. I say it thousands of times. Because I am responsible for what I say. And I have to answer. I am at your service to answer.Thank you very much

 

[heydarian saeed]

That is very likely true. But, what has this to do with your religion? It certainly doesn't say so in any of the holy books.

Hans

Hello dear professor
It has been said many times in the Qur'an. The four-stage process of evolution in the Qur'an is related to "eukaryotes". Eukaryote is called "single soul - خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ " in the Qur'an 5 times. (God created you and all living things in the beginning from eukaryotes and in soil - in mud - in bad mud - in clay - in sticky clay - in hot dry pottery - in low water. Do you not think about God's creation? And you do not use your intellect?) I have said this many times in this thread. I say it again. I say it thousands of times. Because I am responsible for what I say. And I have to be accountable.
Nice to see you again

 

[IanS]

Hello dear philosopher
Because you are trying to continue this Qur'anic discussion. And you take your time, thank you very much.

Dear philosopher
The translation and interpretation of all Islamologists - missionaries - Islamic institutions, etc. for the Qur'an is based on the understanding of the past. it's old. Not updated. This movement has started almost 300 years ago to update the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an in Islamic societies. It was all for political purposes. Therefore, the text of the Qur'an has been studied in the same old way. And its new concepts have nothing new to say. Modern science is not in it. While in most Quranic verses there is a message of modern science. And it is perfectly visible.

My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere else.
Unfortunately, we never tried to look at the Qur'an scientifically. And our reference and sources have been the views of the past. And it does not make sense. The Qur'an must be removed from scientific abandonment. And then he understood its meaning and interpretation. Translators and interpreters of the Qur'an must first understand the simple meaning of all Qur'anic words. Then review new scientific material. And see what verse is said about modern science.
Of course, the effort of the translators of the Qur'an so far is only to translate the "principled and solid verses" of the Qur'an. The basic verses of the Qur'an are related to the rules of worship. Its meaning is simple and clear. It is always fixed and does not change. We do not discuss these verses of the Qur'an. And it is quite acceptable. And that's right. And it is necessary for us Muslims.
But I am talking about "similar verses" of the Qur'an. Each word has more than 10 different meanings. And the meaning of the word in these verses must be chosen at any time according to the scientific situation of the time. To show the true meaning of the verse and modern science. No effort has been made so far.


My research in this area is unique. Studying and researching similar verses of the Qur'an and discovering the contents of modern science in it, in addition to mastering the simple meaning of words, is in dire need of relatively complete information about modern science. Unfortunately, none of the Qur'anic translators and preachers sought knowledge of modern science. And unfortunately they are not interested. And this is the big problem in "updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an".
My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere.
Therefore, your efforts, dear philosopher, in this regard are in vain. You also cite old translations. And even "Ijaz" is old. None of this is valid in updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an. And is rejected.

Our translators are still living in the seventh century !! And they do not try to make their translation have a say for the twentieth century !! There are several reasons for this wrong approach. Unfortunately, our translators do not have the courage to come up with a theory for a modern translation of the Qur'an. These are the forms of us Muslims and Islamic societies. I ask you not to refer to old or even new Islamic sources (which means the old filtered meaning) in any way to translate "similar verses" of the Qur'an. My translation is up to date. Please have the courage to just read and think about it. I have told you this many times in this thread. I say it again. I say it thousands of times. Because I am responsible for what I say. And I have to answer. I am at your service to answer.Thank you very much

The above is all completely irrelevant, and we are not going to go through it all again (we have been over the above from you at least 100 times already in this thread).

The absolute bottom-line here is that none of your claims are accepted by any real published science research papers ...

... those research papers are what counts as real genuine science and they are the final unarguable decision. And none of it agrees with any of your claims of science in the Quran.

Please produce the published science research papers that claim to have found proof of God from modern science revealed in the Quran?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Looking at the above response from Heydarian, I of course had never heard of Surah Sajdah (I'm not interested in fundememtalist Islamic preaching sites), so I did not know what that was supposed to be other than the fact that Heyadarian is claiming verse 7 there as his worshipped source from which he gets that highlight saying “created IN THE mud” (and not saying “created FROM Mud”.
So as always I did a 2 second Google seach for Surah Sajdah and what it says in that verse 7, and here is the Islamic preaching site that immediately came up -

https://myislam.org/surah-as-sajdah/ayat-7/

SURAH AS-SAJDAH AYAT 7 (32:7 QURAN) WITH TAFSIR


SURAH SAJDAH AYAT 7 IN ARABIC TEXT

ٱلَّذِىٓ*أَحْسَنَ*كُلَّ*شَىْءٍ*خَلَقَهُۥ ۖ*وَبَدَأَ*خَلْقَ*ٱلْإِنسَـٰنِ*مِن*طِينٍۢ

Allazee ahsana kulla shai in khalaqa; wa bada a khalqal insaani min teen
ENGLISH TRANSLATION
Here you can read various translations of verse 7

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.

YUSUF ALI
He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay,

ABUL ALA MAUDUDI
He Who excelled in the creation of all that He created. He originated the creation of man from clay,

MUHSIN KHAN
Who made everything He has created good, and He began the creation of man from clay.

PICKTHALL
Who made all things good which He created, and He began the creation of man from clay;

DR. GHALI
Who perfected in the fairest (shape) everything He created; and He began the creation of man of clay.

ABDEL HALEEM
who gave everything its perfect form. He first created man from clay,


The other thing that quickly became obvious, is that if you look for Surah Sajdah 7 on YouTube, you find that the place is drowning in lunatic Islamists ranting about God creating Man, although the one I looked at for a whole 5 seconds also immediately said that the verse says created “FROM” mud, and not “IN” Mud … I did not of course waste any more of time looking what other Islamic preaching nutcases said.

You and all Islamic preachers and translators are wrong in translating these verses.
My translation is correct. And it is completely scientific. And expresses the correct and complete process of evolution. The Qur'an is absolutely right. Translators and promoters and you are completely wrong. I am telling you the correct word of the Qur'an.
All your efforts are in vain. Your approach is wrong.

Rest assured, I have the courage to speak the truth about the correct translation of the Qur'an. Only courage is defined in me. Fear of saying the right thing is meaningless to me. I'm right. I have the courage to express the correct and up-to-date translation of the Qur'an. Although the whole world repeatedly misinterprets the Qur'an. It is completely rejected. I'm right. Because the Qur'an is right.
The Qur'an confirms modern science. And in all the "similar verses" he said. Please have the courage to check correctly and accept the logical and correct letter.Thank you

 

[Pixel42]

Our translators are still living in the seventh century !! And they do not try to make their translation have a say for the twentieth century !! There are several reasons for this wrong approach.

There is one very good reason for why it was, and still is, the correct and sane approach, which is that the authors of the Qu'ran had no knowledge of future scientific discoveries. If we want to know what they meant when they wrote it, we need to read it in the light of what they knew, not in the light of what we know.

The only way what they wrote could possibly have any relevance to us today is if they had magically been aware of future scientific discoveries, which they obviously did not. Because there's no such thing as magic. To deliberately twist and misinterpret what they wrote in order to pretend that they had knowledge they could not possibly have had is simply insane.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The above is all completely irrelevant, and we are not going to go through it all again (we have been over the above from you at least 100 times already in this thread).

The absolute bottom-line here is that none of your claims are accepted by any real published science research papers ...

... those research papers are what counts as real genuine science and they are the final unarguable decision. And none of it agrees with any of your claims of science in the Quran.

Please produce the published science research papers that claim to have found proof of God from modern science revealed in the Quran?

If the prophecies of the Qur'an that he said 14 centuries ago are discovered in the twentieth century, then the Qur'an says that it was discovered 14 centuries earlier. Therefore, the Qur'an is superior to scientific articles. This is a completely rational, logical and correct conclusion.
All scientific articles have discovered and proved the predictions of similar verses of the Qur'an. Therefore, scientific articles are approved by the Quran. And the word of the Qur'an is ahead of the scientific articles of the twentieth century. And is superior.
This is quite clear.
Just one example is the discussion of the evolution and creation of living things from inanimate matter. In 42 verses of the Qur'an, the four stages of evolution are much more complete than Darwin. And there is no doubt about its accuracy and scientificity. Is this example not enough ?! To understand the truth of the Quran ?! This example is enough for the whole universe to realize the existence of the one God and believe in God. All beings in the universe worship God. What has happened to you disbelievers? Which way are you going? Where you go is nothing but destruction and nothingness. Please think wiser and better. I love you all. Think better.

 

[heydarian saeed]

There is one very good reason for why it was, and still is, the correct and sane approach, which is that the authors of the Qu'ran had no knowledge of future scientific discoveries. If we want to know what they meant when they wrote it, we need to read it in the light of what they knew, not in the light of what we know.

The only way what they wrote could possibly have any relevance to us today is if they had magically been aware of future scientific discoveries, which they obviously did not. Because there's no such thing as magic. To deliberately twist and misinterpret what they wrote in order to pretend that they had knowledge they could not possibly have had is simply insane.

Hello dear Pixel
Exactly
All the old thoughts and writings about the "similar verses" of the Qur'an are wrong and completely rejected.
You do not know the complete superstitions of the old writings about the Qur'an. And you have not seen. And it's a pleasure to see you. And not seeing you makes you happy. And it's good that you didn't see it
I have read parts of it. I was very sorry. And I threw them all away. They have very blatantly written superstitions about "similar verses" in the Qur'an that are really disgusting. And it is disgusting.
I threw them all away and it is rejected.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I have only one question to ask, "How do you know you are right?"

The truth is always with the Qur'an. But is my word the same as the Quran? Therefore, the truth is still with the Qur'an. I have no fear of stating the scientific facts of the Qur'an. It would be better to ask how I have the courage to speak to translate and interpret the Qur'an? Answer: Because the Qur'an must be translated and interpreted up to date. The Qur'an itself supports this approach.
Thank you

 

[Pixel42]

Hello dear Pixel
Exactly
All the old thoughts and writings about the "similar verses" of the Qur'an are wrong and completely rejected.
You do not know the complete superstitions of the old writings about the Qur'an. And you have not seen. And it's a pleasure to see you. And not seeing you makes you happy. And it's good that you didn't see it
I have read parts of it. I was very sorry. And I threw them all away. They have very blatantly written superstitions about "similar verses" in the Qur'an that are really disgusting. And it is disgusting.
I threw them all away and it is rejected.

I cannot make any sense of this. It is not a response to anything I wrote.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It baffles me that "Repeatedly responding with gibberish" isn't considered "uncivil."

 

[Mojo]

But is my word the same as the Quran?

 

[Mojo]

I think that educated Muslims are being extremely selfish in respect of not sharing information that would help all of mankind. Everything is written down in the Quran for those who can understand it, but yet not even a hint on how scientists elsewhere can crack the nuclear fusion issue or bridge the quantum/relativistic divide or gain more insights into dark matter or crack FTL propulsion. Pretty poor show, I reckon.

Does it even say, “do not buy Betamax”?

 

[IanS]

Hello dear philosopher
Because you are trying to continue this Qur'anic discussion. And you take your time, thank you very much.

Dear philosopher
The translation and interpretation of all Islamologists - missionaries - Islamic institutions, etc. for the Qur'an is based on the understanding of the past. it's old. Not updated. This movement has started almost 300 years ago to update the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an in Islamic societies. It was all for political purposes. Therefore, the text of the Qur'an has been studied in the same old way. And its new concepts have nothing new to say. Modern science is not in it. While in most Quranic verses there is a message of modern science. And it is perfectly visible.

My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere else.
Unfortunately, we never tried to look at the Qur'an scientifically. And our reference and sources have been the views of the past. And it does not make sense. The Qur'an must be removed from scientific abandonment. And then he understood its meaning and interpretation. Translators and interpreters of the Qur'an must first understand the simple meaning of all Qur'anic words. Then review new scientific material. And see what verse is said about modern science.
Of course, the effort of the translators of the Qur'an so far is only to translate the "principled and solid verses" of the Qur'an. The basic verses of the Qur'an are related to the rules of worship. Its meaning is simple and clear. It is always fixed and does not change. We do not discuss these verses of the Qur'an. And it is quite acceptable. And that's right. And it is necessary for us Muslims.
But I am talking about "similar verses" of the Qur'an. Each word has more than 10 different meanings. And the meaning of the word in these verses must be chosen at any time according to the scientific situation of the time. To show the true meaning of the verse and modern science. No effort has been made so far.


My research in this area is unique. Studying and researching similar verses of the Qur'an and discovering the contents of modern science in it, in addition to mastering the simple meaning of words, is in dire need of relatively complete information about modern science. Unfortunately, none of the Qur'anic translators and preachers sought knowledge of modern science. And unfortunately they are not interested. And this is the big problem in "updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an".
My effort in this area is unique. And you can not see anywhere.
Therefore, your efforts, dear philosopher, in this regard are in vain. You also cite old translations. And even "Ijaz" is old. None of this is valid in updating the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an. And is rejected.

Our translators are still living in the seventh century !! And they do not try to make their translation have a say for the twentieth century !! There are several reasons for this wrong approach. Unfortunately, our translators do not have the courage to come up with a theory for a modern translation of the Qur'an. These are the forms of us Muslims and Islamic societies. I ask you not to refer to old or even new Islamic sources (which means the old filtered meaning) in any way to translate "similar verses" of the Qur'an. My translation is up to date. Please have the courage to just read and think about it. I have told you this many times in this thread. I say it again. I say it thousands of times. Because I am responsible for what I say. And I have to answer. I am at your service to answer.Thank you very much

You and all Islamic preachers and translators are wrong in translating these verses.
My translation is correct. And it is completely scientific. And expresses the correct and complete process of evolution. The Qur'an is absolutely right. Translators and promoters and you are completely wrong. I am telling you the correct word of the Qur'an.
All your efforts are in vain. Your approach is wrong.

Rest assured, I have the courage to speak the truth about the correct translation of the Qur'an. Only courage is defined in me. Fear of saying the right thing is meaningless to me. I'm right. I have the courage to express the correct and up-to-date translation of the Qur'an. Although the whole world repeatedly misinterprets the Qur'an. It is completely rejected. I'm right. Because the Qur'an is right.
The Qur'an confirms modern science. And in all the "similar verses" he said. Please have the courage to check correctly and accept the logical and correct letter.Thank you

So you still cannot produce any real science research papers that agree with your claims ... OK, that means you have Nothing At All ...

... your claims have no credibility at all. You are totally 100% rejected by all real science papers.

Where are the papers?


And while you are looking for the papers (there shpuld be thousands of them!) - you did not explain why countless other religions from hundreds & thousands of years before Islam, also had the exact same creation story claiming their gods created the first humans from “Mud” …

… why did the Quran copy all those other previous religions to agree that Mankind was formed from “Mud”?

 

[Chanakya]

Fascinating, this process of reasoning. The Koran cannot possibly be wrong; and also must encompass all of the wisdom of the world, and of all time. On the other hand, science is clearly not wrong either. Therefore the Koran must not mean what it seems to mean; and therefore the words of the Koran must be tortured every which way to have them appear to somehow say things that they don't remotely come close to saying.

In an insane kind of way, in a method-to-madness kind of way, this does make a kind of sense. Pixel42 may be literally correct in detecting actual insanity in play here; on the other hand it may simply be a manifestation of how the theistic mind works. Either way, it's absolutely fascinating to watch.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Hello dear professor
It has been said many times in the Qur'an. The four-stage process of evolution in the Qur'an is related to "eukaryotes". Eukaryote is called "single soul - خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ " in the Qur'an 5 times. (God created you and all living things in the beginning from eukaryotes and in soil - in mud - in bad mud - in clay - in sticky clay - in hot dry pottery - in low water. Do you not think about God's creation? And you do not use your intellect?) I have said this many times in this thread. I say it again. I say it thousands of times. Because I am responsible for what I say. And I have to be accountable.
Nice to see you again

You are showing a typical example of interpretation after the fact. You take various gibberish and assign meanings to it that that shoehorn into a pseudoscientific interpretation. This is standard stuff, and you are not even very good at it, because your knowledge of actual science is rather sketchy.

For instance, the first life forms were not eukaryotes, and eukaryotes did not evolve in mud.

Perhaps you should use YOUR intellect? At least read up on stuff.

Hans

 

[Chanakya]

heydarian, I'll make your job easier for you.

What does 'Islam' start with? An 'I'. And the word 'evolution' contains an 'i' right there. As does the name 'Darwin'. Therefore, clearly, not only did the Koran pre-empt what science discovered centuries after about evolution; but the Koran also, wondrously, actually prophesied who it is who would end up making that discovery.

No need for all that painstaking verse chopping, what you wanted to prove I've proved directly for you.

And you can sneak into some laboratory in your city with your laptop or your phone, and sitting there in the laboratory you can type out this proof that I've supplied you with. Then you can honestly claim that you have indeed proven in the lab that the Koran pre-empts evolution.

You're welcome. And glory be to Allah!

 

[Scorpion]

The Qur'an confirms modern science.

I have proved the Quran is wrong at post 3218 which I have posted before, and you have ignored it again.

THE QURAN SAYS THE SUN ORBITS THE EARTH, THEREFORE IT IS NOT FROM GOD.

Carefully read the last paragraph of my post 3218 and you will see that logic dictates the hadith says the sun orbits the earth. The hadith says if the sun is sent back on its course it will rise in the west. But the sun being sent back on its orbit in the galaxy would not make it rise in the west. It would still rise in the east. Because it is the rotation of the earth that makes the sun appear to rise.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THIS.

So you can stop telling us God is the author of the Quran, because we know better.

 

[IanS]

heydarian, I'll make your job easier for you.

What does 'Islam' start with? An 'I'. And the word 'evolution' contains an 'i' right there. As does the name 'Darwin'. Therefore, clearly, not only did the Koran pre-empt what science discovered centuries after about evolution; but the Koran also, wondrously, actually prophesied who it is who would end up making that discovery.

No need for all that painstaking verse chopping, what you wanted to prove I've proved directly for you.

And you can sneak into some laboratory in your city with your laptop or your phone, and sitting there in the laboratory you can type out this proof that I've supplied you with. Then you can honestly claim that you have indeed proven in the lab that the Koran pre-empts evolution.

You're welcome. And glory be to Allah!

Many months ago in this thread, I did point out that the word "and" apppears perhaps 100 times or more in the Quran ... but, look - it's reversed code actually spelling "DNA"! ... and that proves, PROVES!, that Allah had described DNA as far back as the 7th century! ... so, err ; wow

 

[heydarian saeed]

Fascinating, this process of reasoning. The Koran cannot possibly be wrong; and also must encompass all of the wisdom of the world, and of all time. On the other hand, science is clearly not wrong either. Therefore the Koran must not mean what it seems to mean; and therefore the words of the Koran must be tortured every which way to have them appear to somehow say things that they don't remotely come close to saying.

In an insane kind of way, in a method-to-madness kind of way, this does make a kind of sense. Pixel42 may be literally correct in detecting actual insanity in play here; on the other hand it may simply be a manifestation of how the theistic mind works. Either way, it's absolutely fascinating to watch.

Hi Professor
Your look at the content is fascinating. I am only telling you the scientific facts of the verses "similar to the Qur'an". Of course updated. The updated contents of the Quran are all fascinating.
Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

heydarian, I'll make your job easier for you.

What does 'Islam' start with? An 'I'. And the word 'evolution' contains an 'i' right there. As does the name 'Darwin'. Therefore, clearly, not only did the Koran pre-empt what science discovered centuries after about evolution; but the Koran also, wondrously, actually prophesied who it is who would end up making that discovery.

No need for all that painstaking verse chopping, what you wanted to prove I've proved directly for you.

And you can sneak into some laboratory in your city with your laptop or your phone, and sitting there in the laboratory you can type out this proof that I've supplied you with. Then you can honestly claim that you have indeed proven in the lab that the Koran pre-empts evolution.

You're welcome. And glory be to Allah!

Of course, I do not fully understand what you mean. But you said a very beautiful text. You are a really understanding person. I'm proud to meet you on this topic.
Thank God that there is no destruction in God.
I love you so much.