Texas Gov. Abbott wants to get rid of mandatory public education

[Darat]

The whole "taxpayer" thing is a different debate. Lets just say that if Juan buys a Snickers bar and pays 5% in taxes from his under-the-table job, it is not the same as me paying 35% out of my paycheck, plus that 5%.

Remember, technically these kids should not even be here in the first place. Their illegal parents made that decision. It isn't about who's "sins" they are paying for. All of that falls on the parents, imo. And nobody should have to provide any resources for these people, educational or otherwise.

You are then indeed saying the child is to be punished for the sins of their fathers. I suppose good old fashion Christianity.

 

[The Don]

I don't see the value either. Indoctrination - whether it be religious instruction or teaching that only the official theory of evolution is true - is the antithesis of critical thinking.

Would you advocate a similar approach to geography with equal weight being given to flat-Earthism ?

How about teaching maths where equal weight being given to a variety of values of pi ?

How about medical institutions "teaching the controversy" of the humours ?

How much time should be allocated by science teachers to explore religious rubbish in their classes especially when fundamentalists are well known for their disruptive tactics. Ensure that every biology lesson is hijacked by a lengthy diversion into new-Earth creationism ? Sure, explore evolution vs. ID vs. creationism in critical thinking or philosophy classes but to allow, encourage even, science classes to be ruined by people who aren't interested in critical thinking but just pushing their fables is unwise IMO.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I don't see the value either. Indoctrination - whether it be religious instruction or teaching that only the official theory of evolution is true - is the antithesis of critical thinking.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

There, let's watch you lie and pretend you can't understand that "wordsalad."

 

[Warp12]

Well, if you are arguing that children have no right to an education, then why have a public education system at all?

Of course, this is probably just a few years away from becoming mainstream GOP policy...

First off, I am not saying that no children have a right to an education here. I think you know this.

I am saying that children of illegals should not have that right. I don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they were born here, either. As far as their burden to the US while growing up uneducated, there shouldn't be one. They should not be allowed to stay here.

 

[Random]

First off, I am not saying that no children have a right to an education here. I think you know this.

I am saying that children of illegals should not have that right. I don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they were born here, either. As far as their burden to the US while growing up uneducated, there shouldn't be one. They should not be allowed to stay here.

Again, they are children. They have significantly little say in whether or not they stay in the country, legally or otherwise.

 

[Crossbow]

First off, I am not saying that no children have a right to an education here. I think you know this.

I am saying that children of illegals should not have that right. I don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they were born here, either. As far as their burden to the US while growing up uneducated, there shouldn't be one. They should not be allowed to stay here.

Well I just have to ask something about this remarkable posting ...

Just how do you propose to locate and apprehend these children who you find so objectionable?

Area you planning on setting up a network of Child Catchers like the one shown in the film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Catcher

 

[sackett]

I sure do

I don't see the value either. Indoctrination - whether it be religious instruction or teaching that only the official theory of evolution is true - is the antithesis of critical thinking.

wish that people would abandon that word. They never, but never, use it right.*

There is no official theory of evolution. There is no official theory of tectonics, or stellar origins, or market forces. There is no official theory of any ******* thing. There are only theories that best explain facts as they are currently understood.

And if new evidence emerges that requires modification of ANY theory, you'll see scientists shoving and elbowing to publish it. Eventually, it will appear in textbooks. And in the mad denunciations of the religion industry.

* Come to that, does "official" ever mean much of anything? Which officials? How do they make something official? Must they all concur? Are there degrees of officiality? Suppose somebody (not me!) decides that something isn't official enough for him. What do we do then? psion, tell us what to do!

 

[JoeMorgue]

He knows. Calling evolution a theory is just bait at this point.

 

[sackett]

@Warp12.Yo bro! You sure use SHOULD and SHOULDN'T a lot. You should all over yourself, seems like.

Heck, anybody can should. Me, I think all kids of the right age should go to public school. If there's a grownup living in the district to bring them in and enroll them, that should be sufficient.

Anybody born on US soil is an American. That's the law, and it should be. Any American who wants it otherwise should be ashamed of himself.

Or am I just full of should? You're the expert, shouldn't you give us a ruling on that?

Make it official while you're at it.

 

[The Don]

Well I just have to ask something about this remarkable posting ...

Just how do you propose to locate and apprehend these children who you find so objectionable?

Area you planning on setting up a network of Child Catchers like the one shown in the film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Catcher

I suggest a two pronged approach. If they are found by ICE then deport them back to their parents' homeland regardless of whether they've got the parents as well.

Similarly, if they request education and cannot prove their parents' citizenship/residency then deport them. Again with or without parents.

I think that's what is being advocated.

 

[bruto]

Not if I'm writing the law, they aren't.

Thanks a lot for that. My three children's mother, though a legal alien, was not a citizen, and therefore by your broadly swinging axe, not entitled to the rights of American born children, at least not automatically without some additional legal procedure for which no bureaucracy or budget exists. But hey, what does this country need, but another layer of bureaucracy?

I'm sure you can backpedal your statement and say, as so often happens, "Oh, I didn't mean that,"because you meant illegals without saying it, and without thinking about how the distinction might be made, nor how it might be possible to enact unconstitutional laws that nullify the rights that children already born had when they were born, but we are so often now being governed by people who do not think and do not count the exceptions swept up in their bloviating rhetoric that I think it's time, just this once, to stop and actually THINK about what you're saying, and not have to unsay it later. I wish I could express my true opinion of that position here, but I don't like yellow cards, so I'll just have to say....excuse me for disagreeing!

You're all in favor of denying rights to those whose parents are illegal, arguing that this is not penalizing the children, but you're apparently also in favor of retroactively removing the rights of those already born, whose citizenship was guaranteed from that moment by the law.

 

[JoeMorgue]

What sort of rubbish is this?

In a maths/science class students should be encouraged to demand proof that a given teaching is true (or at least better than any other explanation) and why alternative theories fail.

Nobody advocates teaching "flat earthism" / "multiple values of pi" / "the humours" along with regular teachings.

Worst strawman ever.

Again with pretending schools are one long "debate class" that lets you teach gibberish.

Pathetic.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Critical support for teaching the one true biblical creationism in schools:

n the beliefs of the Nation of Islam (NOI), Yakub (sometimes spelled Yacub or Yaqub) was a black scientist who lived 6,600 years ago and began the creation of the white race/whites. He is said to have done this through a form of selective breeding which is referred to as "grafting", while he was living on the island of Patmos. The Nation of Islam's theology states that Yakub is the biblical Jacob.

The story has caused disputes within the NOI during its history. Under its current leader Louis Farrakhan, the NOI continues to assert that the story of Yakub is true,[1] claiming that modern science is consistent with it.[2] Despite the NOI's self-proclamations of consistency with modern science, there are no reputable, peer-reviewed scientific studies that support this assertion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam)

 

[psionl0]

The story of Yakub seems more scientifically plausible than Young Earth Creationism.

"Sounds good" has nothing to do with science or critical thinking.

 

[shemp]

I think that Republicans would like to do away with citizenship by dint of being born in the US and would like to modify it to citizenship being granted to those born to people Republicans legally resident in, or even citizens of, the Unite States.

FTFY

 

[JoeMorgue]

Don't let them drag us down the hole of explaining basics facts of how logic and reality work. We'll never come back if they do.

Stop letting the wrong people put more and more layers of wrongness that we are then expected to explain to them.

They are wrong about education. We'll deal with them being wrong about literally everything else later, that's not the topic now.

I'm so sick of them shutting down conversation by going saying one wrong then and then needing a simpler wrong thing explained to them just to get back to the original wrong thing.

 

[psionl0]

And science and critical thinking thus far suggest that the theory of evolution is on par with the current atomic model, the current model for physics etc.

Not perfect, but by far the best and thus the one that should be taught in science classes in high school.
It's hard enough to teach without having to pay lip-service to every unproven and untestable theory out there.

But why do we have to teach it by rote? Why are students not supposed to ask why a particular explanation is the best one for the available data? Why can they not explore why alternative scientific theories (ie not YEC or any other form of untestable religious dogma) do not fit the known data as well?

 

[Warp12]

Thanks a lot for that. My three children's mother, though a legal alien, was not a citizen, and therefore by your broadly swinging axe, not entitled to the rights of American born children, at least not automatically without some additional legal procedure for which no bureaucracy or budget exists. But hey, what does this country need, but another layer of bureaucracy?

I'm sure you can backpedal your statement and say, as so often happens, "Oh, I didn't mean that,"because you meant illegals without saying it

I said "illegals" a lot. I mean a whole lot. Like, in almost every post.

 

[sackett]

It won't be official, but --

Who said that? I haven't read that anywhere in this thread.

Well heck, we can use this thread to conduct a little poll.

Everybody who thinks there's one unchanging theory of evolution, raise your ️.

 

[Darat]

General consensus among who?

The religious.