Trans women are not women (Part 8)

[Meadmaker]

Even more telling is that the judge opined that the young female had no right to visual privacy from the opposite sex while mostly naked in a single-sex restroom.

[nitpick] That was actually from a locker room lawsuit in Palatine, Illinois.[/nitpick]

But yes. No right to visual privacy.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I tended bar two years running at this beauty pageant in Seattle. You would be stunned at how these guys looked like very pretty women. I went into it expecting that i would easily be able to spot their true sex. I couldn't and I seriously doubt anybody else would be able to.

How much cosmetic had they undergone?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Re:hilited Without context I would be on the side of the person that is getting vibes that they should leave, rather than from the person that wants them to leave.

Wanting others to leave rather than leave oneself seems like bullying to me.

Interesting logic. Whether or not the person getting vibes *should* be there, or whether their presence is a *problem* seems to be irrelevant to you. It's all just feels.

If I want a burglar to leave my house, and they are getting that vibe... your sentiment is with the burglar?

 

[Emily's Cat]

[nitpick] That was actually from a locker room lawsuit in Palatine, Illinois.[/nitpick]

But yes. No right to visual privacy.

Palatine, Pennsylvania... potato, tomato.

 

[theprestige]

I started out just a few years ago being much more accommodating than I am now. I'm less so than in the past partly because virtually everything I was told would never happen has happened, and more than once.

And while my hypothetical position "in an ideal world" would still be that restrooms don't matter... the reality has been that they really are the thin end of a wedge.

I still support the right of transgender people - and anybody for that matter - to dress and express themselves however they please. I still completely support bans against discrimination in employment and housing, and I support fair treatment under the law.

And to be honest, if we could back away from self-declaration as the basis for public policy, I'd have significantly less objection to a whole lot of things.

This is pretty much exactly the position I've arrived at, too. Especially the bit about bathrooms being the thin end of the wedge.

 

[acbytesla]

How much cosmetic had they undergone?

I don't know. I was in my early twenties and the only thing that stopped me from hitting on them was that i knew they were males. I wondered if their breasts were the result of surgery or hormones.

 

[shuttlt]

Out of curiosity, what exactly have you been reading? I might want to check it out.

Quite a bit. I just got through Why Liberalism Failed by Deneen. that seemed pretty relevant. A bit of James Burnham, Fukuyama's End of History, Mearsheimer's The Great Delusion and a bunch of similar stuff, plus some historical things like The Ancient City. I've been reading liberal stuff too, but you probably don't need me to tell you those

 

[shuttlt]

So... According to you - a male - it's okay if some females get raped and sexually assaulted, as long as you - a male - have decided that it's not "too many"?

How many, in your oh-so-vaunted male opinion, would be "too many" females being raped and sexually assaulted? What's your very male threshold for when you, a male, would decide that enough females have suffered that you might be bothered to take action?

We all find ourselves wanting to advocate positions that impact groups we aren't members of. If we abandon some concept like the privilege stack for deciding who gets to have an opinion, then I think everybody probably gets to have an opinion. If we stick with the privilege stack, your feelings win out on issues where the negotiation is between men and women, but between trans-women and women, you need to stay silent.

 

[The Atheist]

I don't know. I was in my early twenties and the only thing that stopped me from hitting on them was that i knew they were males. I wondered if their breasts were the result of surgery or hormones.

Just as an aside, it's very easy to tell the difference, and it's partly why so many trans women seek augmentation. Hormone-driven breasts on men are always a weird conical shape.

 

[LondonJohn]

So... According to you - a male - it's okay if some females get raped and sexually assaulted, as long as you - a male - have decided that it's not "too many"?

How many, in your oh-so-vaunted male opinion, would be "too many" females being raped and sexually assaulted? What's your very male threshold for when you, a male, would decide that enough females have suffered that you might be bothered to take action?

How many ciswomen need to seriously sexually assault or kill ciswomen in the women's bathrooms before we take action and ban all ciswomen from the women's bathrooms. What's your threshold for that number?

 

[lionking]

How many ciswomen need to seriously sexually assault or kill ciswomen in the women's bathrooms before we take action and ban all ciswomen from the women's bathrooms. What's your threshold for that number?

Laughable.

 

[shuttlt]

How many ciswomen need to seriously sexually assault or kill ciswomen in the women's bathrooms before we take action and ban all ciswomen from the women's bathrooms. What's your threshold for that number?

If they weren't allowed outside without being accompanied by a male family member, many of these problems would go away.

 

[Manger Douse]

How many ciswomen need to seriously sexually assault or kill ciswomen in the women's bathrooms before we take action and ban all ciswomen from the women's bathrooms. What's your threshold for that number?

For me, If they committed sexual assaults at about half rate as transwomen I reckon would be a good cut off. How about you?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Certainly not by the girl, although they could lobby for change.

As noted many times previously, I also think your are underestimating the difficulty of that solution, both in terms of cost and in terms of utility, but that has come up many times before.

In the real world with these real girls in a real building, there's a choice to be made, and someone will not get what they want. I'm asking people who should win and who should lose, because someone has to.

In the real world, the cisgirl lost. I don't know what she did in response.

What happens when people express anxiety about being forced to undress in front of their cis-gendered peers?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Certainly not by the girl, although they could lobby for change.

As noted many times previously, I also think your are underestimating the difficulty of that solution, both in terms of cost and in terms of utility, but that has come up many times before.

In the real world with these real girls in a real building, there's a choice to be made, and someone will not get what they want. I'm asking people who should win and who should lose, because someone has to.

In the real world, the cisgirl lost. I don't know what she did in response.

I wonder how that cost and inconvenience of adding personal privacy compares to paying out $150,000 in damages after a 4 year long discrimination lawsuit

After more than four years of high-profile battles over transgender student locker room access, a northwest suburban school district has approved a settlement in its last remaining lawsuit involving gender identity.

Palatine-based Township High School District 211 on Thursday agreed to pay $150,000 to former student Nova Maday of Palatine to settle her 2017 discrimination lawsuit, according to Maday’s attorneys.

“With this settlement agreement, there are no remaining court cases or lawsuits involving District 211,” district spokesman Tom Petersen said in an email.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-palatine-transgender-lawsuit-settlement-20200214-ldgh6vw7znfsfibwcury3bnn4a-story.html

If you were in a position to give advice to a school facing a similar complaint, what would you give as practical advice knowing that discriminating against the trans students is likely to be slapped down by an expensive lawsuit?

 

[shuttlt]

What happens when people express anxiety about being forced to undress in front of their cis-gendered peers?

The world can not be organized around the needs of yiffing furries, men who dress as babies and confused children. There are always going to be people at the margins who want different things to that which society caters for. There is an extent to which respecting everybody's wishes is a zero sum game. Everything can't be normal. Everyone can't be normal.

 

[shuttlt]

I wonder how that cost and inconvenience of adding personal privacy compares to paying out $150,000 in damages after a 4 year long discrimination lawsuit

The obvious solution is to change the law so that the government isn't putting it's massive thumb on the scales to favour this particular group. It could easily move it's thumb over onto the other side.

 

[Rolfe]

Bwahahahaha.

https://twitter.com/pimpmytweeting/status/1511926852474052608

On a more serious note, this is how it should have been handled all along. Mock the cheats, hold them up to ridicule, show the world how ludicrious this is. The excessive deference, the forced "kindness", the cries of "brave and stunning!", the silencing of anyone who isn't prepared to genuflect at the great trans altar, that's what's keeping it going.

Come back Monty Python.

 

[Ziggurat]

Bwahahahaha.

https://twitter.com/pimpmytweeting/status/1511926852474052608

JP Sears is great. If you aren't familiar with him, he's got a YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/AwakenWithJP

 

[Lithrael]

So... According to you - a male - it's okay if some females get raped and sexually assaulted, as long as you - a male - have decided that it's not "too many"?

How many, in your oh-so-vaunted male opinion, would be "too many" females being raped and sexually assaulted? What's your very male threshold for when you, a male, would decide that enough females have suffered that you might be bothered to take action?

Every time I respond to one of these ‘you, a male, have an opinion about stuff that females have to deal with, male male male hm??’ posts of yours to say ‘I, a female, have a very similar opinion,’ you go ‘so what?’

If neither sex has clearance to have an opinion about this stuff then what is the point of bringing up your objections to male persons’ opinions?