Trans women are not women (Part 8)

[shuttlt]

I think this describes the case people are thinking of:

https://www.familylawincanberra.com.au/custody-of-transgender-child-lost-by-non-accepting-parents/

The parents then went on to lose an appeal.

 

[Rolfe]

That's Australia. The cases I saw were in Canada.

Now we'll find that it's absolutely fine to break up a family and take a child away from her parents if the parents don't share ST's views. It's only these wonderful parents who think like he does whose rights should be protected.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I think this describes the case people are thinking of:

https://www.familylawincanberra.com.au/custody-of-transgender-child-lost-by-non-accepting-parents/

The parents then went on to lose an appeal.

This seems to be Australia, not Canada.

The parents who lost custody claim that it was simply because they opposed medical transition. The courts found credible evidence that they were verbally abusing their child who was showing clear indicators of being a suicide risk. I suppose there's some people who would prefer parents have the right to bully their trans children into suicide, but that strikes me as an extremist position.

The now 16 year old teenager, born female, was removed from the family home by police a year before the current court decision was handed down, after it was discovered the child was discussing suicide online. When the case ultimately went to a state Children’s Court, a magistrate made a protection order, saying the child was at risk of self-harm in the home:

“The magistrate had found on the balance of probabilities that the teenager suffered verbal abuse ‘directly related to his feelings and expression of gender identity'”.

https://www.familylawincanberra.com.au/custody-of-transgender-child-lost-by-non-accepting-parents/

That's why I'm asking for the citation for this alleged Canada case, because I very much suspect it will show far worse behavior by the parents than is being claimed in these reductionist, second-hand accounts.

 

[shuttlt]

That's Australia. The cases I saw were in Canada.

Now we'll find that it's absolutely fine to break up a family and take a child away from her parents if the parents don't share ST's views. It's only these wonderful parents who think like he does whose rights should be protected.

You are right.... I think maybe this case:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/canadian-judge-strips-transgender-childs-parents-of-rights/
It's happened in a bunch of countries.

Effectively it comes down to disagreeing with the affirming that your son is actually your daughter, or vice versa, and should be allowed to transition, is a form of child abuse.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You are right.... I think maybe this case:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/canadian-judge-strips-transgender-childs-parents-of-rights/
It's happened in a bunch of countries.

Effectively it comes down to disagreeing with the affirming that your son is actually your daughter, or vice versa, and should be allowed to transition, is a form of child abuse.

Divorced parents having a disagreement about what medical care is best for their child and having it settled in family court is a far cry from "the state will take away your kid if you refuse to trans them" arguments being made.

Surely this isn't the case, I wouldn't want to accuse other members of deliberately slanting the truth to such an absurd extent. This can't be the case EC was referencing.

 

[shuttlt]

Divorced parents having a disagreement about what medical care is best for their child and having it settled in family court is a far cry from "the state will take away your kid if you refuse to trans them" arguments being made.

Surely this isn't the case, I wouldn't want to accuse other members of deliberately slanting the truth to such an absurd extent. This can't be the case EC was referencing.

That wasn't the case in the first example I posted. In both cases, it seems like not going along with trans gender identity and medical intervention has been taken by a court as child abuse.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That wasn't the case in the first example I posted. In both cases, it seems like not going along with trans gender identity and medical intervention has been taken by a court as child abuse.

The second case doesn't involve any allegations of child abuse, the father filed some kind of injunction to prevent medical transition that the child and mother had planned to seek that was ultimately unsuccessful. It was never a criminal/custody matter. Certainly nothing even close to analogous to the type of heavy handed criminal investigations going on in Texas.

 

[shuttlt]

The second case doesn't involve any allegations of child abuse, the father filed some kind of injunction to prevent medical transition that the child and mother had planned to seek as was ultimately unsuccessful. It was never a criminal/custody matter. Certainly nothing even close to analogous to the type of heavy handed criminal investigations going on in Texas.

Here is a quote from the judgement:

any attempt to persuade A.B. to abandon treatment or references to A.B. as a girl or using female pronouns “shall be considered to be family violence” under the Family Law Act

So, in Canada using the wrong pronouns can be violence under the family law act, while in the Australian case it was child abuse and they lost custody.

Here is another case:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/26/dad-lost-custody-after-questioning-sons-transgender-identity/

Again, it is in the context of a divorce.... but parents are losing custody of their children for not agreeing with trans-activist dogma.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Here is a quote from the judgement:

So, in Canada using the wrong pronouns can be violence under the family law act, while in the Australian case it was child abuse and they lost custody.

Here is another case:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/26/dad-lost-custody-after-questioning-sons-transgender-identity/

Again, it is in the context of a divorce.... but parents are losing custody of their children for not agreeing with trans-activist dogma.

The Australian article does not specify what the verbal abuse was. You seem to be making a large assumption that it was simply misgendering.

You'll forgive me if I don't treat some one-sided hit piece in the NYPost as a reliable accounting of facts. It's suspiciously lacking in citations to verifiable facts. A direct link to a court opinion would be helpful, this piece seems to be written with only the father's account considered.

 

[Ziggurat]

The Australian article does not specify what the verbal abuse was. You seem to be making a large assumption that it was simply misgendering.

You'll forgive me if I don't treat some one-sided hit piece in the NYPost as a reliable accounting of facts. It's suspiciously lacking in citations to verifiable facts. A direct link to a court opinion would be helpful, this piece seems to be written with only the father's account considered.

Ok. But what if his account is accurate? Yes, I know, we don't know that it is. And a lot could change if it's not. But for the sake of argument, what if?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Ok. But what if his account is accurate? Yes, I know, we don't know that it is. And a lot could change if it's not. But for the sake of argument, what if?

I'm willing to concede that divorced parents with radically different ideas on what is best for their child's health is a difficult problem. The child in this case was 16, which is an age where their preference is probably going to count for a lot in such disputes.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that I really doubt that the mother in this case was granted sole custody simply because the father preferred a "watchful waiting" approach.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

GOP Indiana governor vetoes transgender girls sports ban
Gov. Eric Holcomb last month signaled support for the bill but said Monday that it “falls short” of setting an effective statewide policy for “fairness in K-12 sports.”

Holcomb signaled support for the bill last month but said in his veto letter that the legislation “falls short” of providing a consistent statewide policy for what he called “fairness in K-12 sports.”

Holcomb also pointed to the Indiana High School Athletic Association, which has a policy covering transgender students wanting to play sports that match their gender identity and has said it has had no transgender girls finalize a request to play on girls team.

“The presumption of the policy laid out in HEA 1041 is that there is an existing problem in K-12 sports in Indiana that requires further state government intervention,” Holcomb said in his letter. “It implies that the goals of consistency and fairness in competitive female sports are not currently being met. After thorough review, I find no evidence to support either claim even if I support the effort overall.”

...


Holcomb’s veto comes seven years after Indiana faced a national uproar over a religious objections law signed by then-Gov. Mike Pence which opponents maintained could be used to discriminate against gays and lesbians. The Republican-dominated Legislature quickly made revisions blocking its use as a legal defense for refusing to provide services and preventing the law from overriding local ordinances with LGBT protections.

Democrats argued Republican lawmakers were following a national conservative “culture war” with the transgender girls sports ban.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/gop-indiana-governor-vetoes-transgender-girls-sports-ban-rcna20951

Curious if the situation in Texas has made the prospect of legislating transphobia less alluring.

 

[Meadmaker]

It's pretty clear the most intense animus is reserved for trans women. Trans men are very rarely the focus of these hate campaigns.

Interesting word choice. "Clear".


What's clear is that you have a one track mind and cannot see beyond the narrow, self imposed, bounds of your ideology. Your narrow mindedness prevents you from engaging on any of these topics except to spout slogans.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Interesting word choice. "Clear".


What's clear is that you have a one track mind and cannot see beyond the narrow, self imposed, bounds of your ideology. Your narrow mindedness prevents you from engaging on any of these topics except to spout slogans.

I'm not even sure what we're in disagreement about here. I agree with you, nobody seems to care about the transman swimmer at all. All attention is on Lia.

 

[Rolfe]

And why do you think that is?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

And why do you think that is?

Doesn't support the claim that transwomen are really crypto-male perverts invading women's spaces.

 

[Meadmaker]

It seems you know little about swimming. Swimmers are either sprinters or long distance (with the exception of Phelps). Thomas is a long distance specialist, and simply not expected to win this sprint.

In the Olympics, Phelps never won an event where he had to swim more than 400 meters, and that race was the 4x100 individual medley. Phelps was a sprinter.

I don't know about his collegiate performances.

Thomas, by contrast, has first place finishes at collegiate events ranging from 100 meters to 1650 meters*. Clearly Thomas is a much more well rounded athlete, to have such a level of success at such a range of distances. That's unheard of in women's swimming. I think an "athlete of the year" award would surely be appropriate.

*Or yards. I know NCAA swimming still does events in yards.

 

[Meadmaker]

I'm not even sure what we're in disagreement about here. I agree with you, nobody seems to care about the transman swimmer at all. All attention is on Lia.

What we are in disagreement about is your ridiculous assertion that the focus on transwomen in sports is a result of "animus" and "hate campaigns".

The fact that you would make such an assertion demonstrates that you simply do not even comprehend the nature of the discussion, but because of your narrow focus, it seems "clear" to you.

 

[shuttlt]

Doesn't support the claim that transwomen are really crypto-male perverts invading women's spaces.

Is the objection to trans-women swimmers that they are perverts? I thought it was that they were males competing in a female category and that that was felt to be unfair.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

What we are in disagreement about is your ridiculous assertion that the focus on transwomen in sports is a result of "animus" and "hate campaigns".

The fact that you would make such an assertion demonstrates that you simply do not even comprehend the nature of the discussion, but because of your narrow focus, it seems "clear" to you.

Yes, I forget that collegiate swimming is an event that so many people in our society care deeply about. Surely this isn't some proxy for a broader culture war.

ETA: Thomas is graduating and is done swimming at the collegiate level. Surely there must be another punching bag waiting in the wings.