The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[theprestige]

I don't think that Putin should be rewarded in any way.

You lie. Your explicit solution to the current problem in Ukraine is to give Putin everything he wants, everything he's embarked on this violent course to obtain.

 

[theprestige]

Crimea is a red herring.

Ukraine didn't recognize it - but had no plans to recapture it. None at all. Zip, zero, a big fat nothing.

A woman gets a car in a divorce settlement. The Ex-husband really liked that car. So he steals it from her.

Wife refuses give him the ownership paperwork - but does nothing else.

So he beats the ever-loving crap out of her, kills her dog, torches her house and rapes her.

Michel says "It's partly her fault, she should have just signed the car over to him."

"But I don't think he should be rewarded."

 

[tyr_13]

'She shouldn't have burnt the roast!'

 

[crescent]

"But I don't think he should be rewarded."

'She shouldn't have burnt the roast!'

"She mentioned that she might start dating again! What gives her the right to do that when Vladimir still loves her!"

 

[crescent]

Russia is now finally admitting to some war dead.

Russia says 498 soldiers killed, 1597 wounded in Ukraine- RIA

That's less than 1/4 of what western intelligence agencies are estimating, less than 1/10 of what Ukraine is (claiming to) estimate.

Even that much may come as a shock to the Russian public.

 

[Galaxie]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1499045445712162820?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499046600303386626%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_fb3d5bbc-9a3f-11ec-ab05-9255651bc2c4%2F0

Ukrainian Defense Ministry claims to have discovered documents maps and plans for the #Russian invasion of #Ukraine, approved back in January (January 18) [photos embedded]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1499046600303386626

According to these #Russian documents, the battle plan called for a two-week-long war to capture Ukraine, which would take place from February 20 to March 6. #Ukraine

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Horrible but serious question: given the problems with supplies, might the Russian units run out of ammunition, in particular the artillery shells?

 

[Michel H]

You lie. Your explicit solution to the current problem in Ukraine is to give Putin everything he wants, everything he's embarked on this violent course to obtain.

No, that's not true. Putin wants to "denazify" (sic) and "demilitarize" (sic) Ukraine:

"The purpose of this operation is to protect people who for eight years now have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime," he said, according to an English translation from the Russian Mission in Geneva. "To this end, we will seek to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation."

(https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083677765/putin-denazify-ukraine-russia-history?t=1646240036186).

I don't think this is acceptable. Ukraine voted to become independent from the Soviet Union in 1991 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum). I see no reason why this wish to be independent shouldn't be respected by Russia. If there is something to "denazify" or to "demilitarize" in Ukraine, this should be done by the Ukrainians themselves, not by Moscow.

 

[slyjoe]

Russia is now finally admitting to some war dead.


That's less than 1/4 of what western intelligence agencies are estimating, less than 1/10 of what Ukraine is (claiming to) estimate.

Even that much may come as a shock to the Russian public.

Can the Russian public see that Twitter feed?

 

[seayakin]

I was wondering if the Russians capture Kiev, how likely is it the Ukrainian government can reconvene in western Ukraine to continue a conventional fight and support insurgency behind the lines?

 

[theprestige]

Horrible but serious question: given the problems with supplies, might the Russian units run out of ammunition, in particular the artillery shells?

Dunno if it's that horrible. The Russians running out of artillery shells before they reach their objectives would be a pretty positive outcome, all things considered.

 

[crescent]

Can the Russian public see that Twitter feed?

Probably not, unless they access via a VPN or some other way of spoofing their location.

But if it is from the Russian government, I'm guessing that it's being released domestically as well. Mixed in with vast amounts of propaganda and false information. They'll probably soon be claiming that the bulk of the fatalities were caused by American special forces and Jewish Space Lasers.

Can't be caused by the Ukrainians, because they're crying tears of joy at being liberated.

Except for the brainwashed ones. A few years in the camps will make those ones come around.



(There's a sad truth there, as there's no doubt that many Ukrainians will end up in prisons and camps and such. For years and years, even if the war somehow ends in total defeat of the Russian Army in Ukraine [which I think is profoundly unlikley]. Russia will continue to prosecute captured Ukrainians for disloyalty, regardless of the outcome of the war. That's how Russia rolls.).

 

[Frank Newgent]

Ukrainian authorities say citizens don't need to declare captured Russian tanks and military equipment for tax purposes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-authorities-citizens-dont-declare-063528451.html

 

[dasmiller]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-authorities-citizens-dont-declare-063528451.html

TBH, at first I assumed that was an Onion link

 

[Olmstead]

No, that's not true. Putin wants to "denazify" (sic) and "demilitarize" (sic) Ukraine:

(https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083677765/putin-denazify-ukraine-russia-history?t=1646240036186).

I don't think this is acceptable. Ukraine voted to become independent from the Soviet Union in 1991 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum). I see no reason why this wish to be independent shouldn't be respected by Russia. If there is something to "denazify" or to "demilitarize" in Ukraine, this should be done by the Ukrainians themselves, not by Moscow.

Have you considered that, and I know this is a stretch, Putin might be lying about why Russia has invaded Ukraine, and also about why they annexed Crimea?

 

[crescent]

Still lots of drama about Indian students stuck in Ukraine. There seem to be hundreds thousands of them stuck in Kharkiv. The Indian government is claiming that the Ukrainians are refusing to let them leave, and that Russia is offering them safe passage.

This is the same Indian government that didn't initiate an evacuation earlier because it believed Mr. Putin when he claimed Russia would not invade.


ETA: An article on the subject:

A blow-by-blow account of an Indian student trying – and failing – to escape Kharkhiv in Ukraine

He had grim news to share. “There was one train in the afternoon. We were not allowed to board it. Only Ukranians were allowed onboard,” he said.

From early afternoon in Kharkiv, the bombings intensified. Nayak said that an announcement was made at the station to evacuate immediately. “There is a train, but we are not allowed to board it,” he told Scroll.in, panic now seeping in his voice.

(my guess is that the trains are either full of women and children being evacuated, or might not be running at all because there's a hell of a war going on and transport isn't safe).

ETA2: On the diplomatic and PR side of things, Ukraine is really getting hammered on the Indian student thing. Indian politicians are now claiming that Ukraine is holding the students hostage and the Russian attack on Kharkiv is starting to be presented as a rescue operation. India is pushing on this issue at the U.N. and Ukrainian diplomats are stuck dealing with this issue at the U.N. instead of dealing with the actual invasion of their country.

 

[Michel H]

Have you considered that, and I know this is a stretch, Putin might be lying about why Russia has invaded Ukraine, and also about why they annexed Crimea?

I believe that Putin has really lied, because Ukraine was actually not trying to retake the two independent republics of Donbass when he launched this invasion.

 

[Olmstead]

Russia is now finally admitting to some war dead.


That's less than 1/4 of what western intelligence agencies are estimating, less than 1/10 of what Ukraine is (claiming to) estimate.

Even that much may come as a shock to the Russian public.

They also released numbers for Ukrainian casualties:
Russia’s defence ministry also said that more than 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and “nationalists” had been killed and about 3,700 wounded, according to Interfax.

Which is just a horrible number.

 

[Olmstead]

I believe that Putin has really lied, because Ukraine was actually not trying to retake the two independent republics of Donbass when he launched this invasion.

So what makes you think that recognising Crimea and the two republics as well as stopping sanctions is going to keep Putin from going after the rest of Ukraine once the opportunity presents itself? If he lied about the reasons for the war, why would granting him those things keep him from going after his actual aim?

 

[Oystein]

Oh so we should just tolerate Russian propaganda and disinformation? ...

As a general rule, Freedom of Speech is precisely the freedom to say what another finds wrong and despicable.
Yes, in general, we SHOULD indeed tolerate lies and manipulative language.

There are two situations where a liberal society would be well advised to setr limits to Rights:
1. When and where exercise of one person's rights infringes on the Rights of another
2. In war

We are not at war - or are we?
So what Rights, whose Rights, are tread upon now by the likes of RT spreading Russian state lies? That's not an easy question to answer using consistent standards, or is it?