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The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

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Where have all the people saying the west was being dramatic for saying Russia would invade Ukraine gone? They have been quiet for days now.

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Where have all the people saying the west was being dramatic for saying Russia would invade Ukraine gone? They have been quiet for days now.

Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

Waiting for talking points?
 
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Shoulder launched AT and AA missiles are being supplied as they are self contained and have simpler logistics.
What do you mean by "AT and AA missiles"?

Do you mean anti-tank missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_guided_missile) and surface-to-air missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile)?

I quote:
Pentagon mulling ways to get more lethal aid to Ukraine
BY ELLEN MITCHELL - 02/25/22 05:47 PM EST

The U.S. military will provide additional lethal aid for Ukraine but is working through the logistics of delivery given the contested airspace over Ukraine, the Pentagon’s top spokesman said Friday.
...
“The airspace over Ukraine is contested, the Russians don't have superiority of it, it’s contested,” Kirby said. “We are going to provide additional security assistance for Ukraine, we will. How that is going to be done is still being worked out.”

He added that he won’t detail what the U.S. would send into Ukraine given the security situation.

“I have not been detailing for any of you each and every package, each and every shipment, because I think you can understand, and it’s particularly relevant now, that Ukraine is involved in a no-kidding invasion of their country,” Kirby said. “We wouldn’t want to put it out there in the public space everything that they’re getting from the United States.”

The U.S. government has provided about $650 million in security assistance to Ukraine in the past year, and the Biden administration is reportedly expected to ask Congress for billions more.
(https://thehill.com/policy/defense/595921-pentagon-mulling-ways-to-get-more-lethal-aid-to-ukraine)

This article by The Hill was published about 10 hours ago.

The Ukrainian military seems to have finally done a good job defending Kyiv, but there is perhaps a powerful, last-resort weapon that Zelensky could use, should the military situation become very bad, namely asking the about two-million Ukrainians living in Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia) to do sabotage acts there, targeting particularly the Putin regime (normally, one cannot obviously do these things, but these are exceptional invasion and unprovoked aggression circumstances).
 
Let's hope your info is right. I found Halla-Aho supporting Ukraine. He speaks Russian and uses Ukrainian in a tweet.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12043017/64-3-50813

The bad actors I find are people like Bäckman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Bäckman

MV, publishing on line from Spain in Finnish has been publishing fake news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV-media

Bäckman IMV is more of an academic than a politician. I think that's fair enough. For a long time, nobody in Finland talked about the Red side of the story re the Civil War and WWII events. It is good that people are now talking about the other side of the story (for example, what happened to the Red Finns in 1918 and what was Finland's role in the Leningrad Siege). I myself am fascinated to know the truth. In addition, there are many Finns who appreciate Russian culture - in the same way someone might like all things French or Italian (or Chinese or African) - but that doesn't mean IMV that they would support Putin in any way or are pro-Russian politics.

I know about MV publishing. I once mistook them for MTV. Janitski (note the Russian-sounding name) was an out and out racist and fascist.

My perception of the Far Right in Finland are the Odin mob who are rent a mob from other parts of the nordic countries, who seem to travel between Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland and maybe number a couple of hundred to show up on their democratically allowed demonstrations and are usually outnumbered by the anti-fascists.
 
I am in favor of taking every action against Russia short of Military Action.
TOtal economic Embargo. No American company allowed to do business with Russia, period.
Break Dipolmatic Relations.
Urge the Euros to show some spine and do the same.

Psst! You know how the US SEALS took out Bin Laden...? Maybe you could just.... you know....
 
President Zelenskyj is asking on Twitter for Ukraine to be admitted into the EU.
 
And if the Ukrainian government knows that then that's probably why they're laying the groundwork for an insurgency.



With the exception of "joining the Warsaw Pact" that's basically the Cuban Missile Crisis.



Two of those countries, Switzerland and Sweden, have been officially neutral since the 1810s. According to this Austria's neutrality is based on the post-war Austrian State Treaty discussions. Similarly Finnish neutrality is (was?) governed by the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948. At present there's a different treaty in place that doesn't have the same stipulations and can be annulled by either party when it comes up for renewal. And Ireland chose not to join NATO not out of wanting to remain neutral but because they didn't want to be in an alliance with the UK. According to this, NATO would have most likely defended Ireland anyway because NI is there. I also think the strategic value would also have been important.

One thing to note is that four of those five countries are EU members. The Lisbon Treaty requires EU member states to provide assistance in the event that a member state was the victim of armed aggression. There is a question as to whether these states are truly neutral in this day and age. I don't think that the non-neutral EU member states would stand back and watch Finland and Sweden get invaded without putting boots on the ground.



There won't be a neutral Ukraine when the dust settles. Even before this invasion there would be no way Russia would accept neutrality. This entire farce has been designed to do one thing and one thing only, re-orient Ukraine back towards Russia.



The only deal that Russia will accept now is one where Ukraine either toes the line to whatever Russia wants from now until the end of time, or ceases to be and the lands integrated into Russia.

As soon as Russia 'sets boot' on Finland and then Sweden, or both together, then the rest of Europe will be forced to act. Once the camel's nose is in the tent door, soon the camel is inside the tent.
 
When the Berlin Wall fell, various former Warsaw Pact nations revealed first-strike plans for a European war. None have ever surfaced in the case of NATO. Former Soviet states asked for protection in the form of NATO membership knowing that Russia had not changed its stripes, and had only gone broke, biding time. And so it has played out.

Putin is using the nuclear option to cow all opposition. We do not have access to CIA briefs, but it is highly likely they not only show Putin's paranoia but also his narcissism: he is highly unlikely to use nuclear weapons over free Ukraine. But the more important point is that if that threat is successful now, it will forever be a source of conflict.

At any rate, Biden ignored Bush's trick in the case of Georgia, which was to put military planes at the airport to deliver "humanitarian aid", planes which never took off, essentially backing Putin down, and all of non-NATO Georgia was not taken. The "no boots on the ground" has turned out to be a butt wave and offer of vaseline.

Slava Ukraini!

Heh, who remembers Putin's self-commissioned photos of his man boobs?

We thought Trump was vain...
 

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UK Armed Forces Minister James Heappey says the UK and 25 other countries have all agreed to provide more "humanitarian aid or lethal aid".

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the UK would now work with those nations to co-ordinate how the military aid is delivered and "put into Ukrainian hands" - but gave no further details.

He said that the Kremlin was likely to be "reflecting" on the stiff Ukrainian resistance it was meeting and conceded that there was a risk it would resort to heavier bombardments on Ukraine to compensate.
 
UK Armed Forces Minister James Heappey has just been speaking to the BBC's Today programme - he says all the objectives Russia aimed to gain control of in the first day of its assault remain in Ukrainian hands.

Those Russian forces active in Kyiv are special forces units and paratroopers but the main Russian armoured columns remain some way north of the city, he said.
 
BBC film of wreckage of a four Ukrainian military vehicles comprising an air defence missile system on the highway near Kyiv that were hit yesterday by a Russian strike.
 
Of course he's wrong and he's quite probably also lying - in that he knows what he's saying is wrong. He's trying to stay relevant to keep the flow of Russian money coming.

Boris Johnson has recently been described as a "Pound Shop (dollar store) Chamberlain". Farage is a Pound Shop William Joyce

Yes, Boris Johnson's fine words of extreme sanctions and strong words condemning Putin lack the ring of sincerity.

The stock phrase, and as used by 'Liz' Truss, is 'Ah but these Russian donors are on the British electoral register', as if that makes it all right. It makes the whole thing worse. Probably bought their British citizenship via the golden visa scheme whereby you could just cram a fiver* in Priti Patel's hand and you were in.

*millions
 
A reminder that the current UK govt policy is to create hundreds of golden visa for wealthy Putin friendly Russian oligarchs, but has closed the borders to Ukrainians fleeing war.
 
Ukraine claims to have killed 3500 Russian soldiers.

If that's true, or anywhere near true, that's insane.

In comparison, on the worst day of the Vietnam war, the Americans lost under 250 soldiers.
 
Reports of Russian vehicles running out of fuel and supplies not getting to the frontline troops.
Seems the Russian logistics are in a mess.
Several videos of surrendering Russians complaining about hunger and lack of fuel and they aren't even on the front.
 
Ukraine claims to have killed 3500 Russian soldiers.

If that's true, or anywhere near true, that's insane.

In comparison, on the worst day of the Vietnam war, the Americans lost under 250 soldiers.

And for perspective, under 15,000 were killed in 10 years of the Soviet-Afghan war.
 
Reports of Russian troops raiding supermarkets in in Mariupol.

One of the big problems in WW2 for the invading Germans was logistics, an armoured division in the filed needs huge amounts of fuel just to move itself on roads.
As soon as it is off road or in action the fuel needed goes through the roof.

A T-72 for example can carry 1,200 litres and has a range of 460 km on the road or 700 km with auxiliary fuel drums on it's rear.

Off road the fuel consumption is much higher and the range can drop to as little as 250 km. There are huge distances to cover in Ukraine.
 
Several videos of captured Russian soldiers, some seemed bewildered and claimed they were told, and thought it was an exercise. Some are clearly young conscripts.
 
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