The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[llwyd]

Historically Russian, so many places are historically Russian and votes can easily be arranged, as the Kremlin has shown. What would be the next place that is "historically Russian"?

Apropos, at the moment us in Finland are not "historically Russian" though some veiled mentions have been uttered (lately even by Putin in his rambling speech where he bemoaned that various border countries were "let" to secede from the Russian Empire.

But in 5-10 years time we might easily become "historically Russian", these things are fluid and change according to need... Just like in the 1930's.

 

[Ryokan]

Northern Norway also has a population of ethnic Russians.

The library of Kirkenes:

 

[arthwollipot]

Crimea is historically Russian, and voted to join Russia.

Historically, the Kievan Rus came from Scandinavia.

 

[llwyd]

Northern Norway also has a population of ethnic Russians.

The library of Kirkenes:

Och aye, we have the same situation in Lappeenranta and Imatra next to the Russian border. Also about 20-30 000 Russian speakers in Helsinki who might need "protection" whenever such need would become handy.

 

[Wildy]

Waiting for further instructions and propaganda talking points from RT and MOA?

It takes time to come up with a believable story that a giant army of Ukrainian soldiers entered Russia and were defeated moments before Russia invaded.

ETA: Wait wait wait, I thought of a better one. All the explosions in Ukraine are a false flag by the Ukrainian government attacking their own people.

 

[The Don]

I fear that the citizens of Ukraine will find out exactly how important they are to the members of NATO over the coming hours/days/weeks.

When I started at Andersen Consulting, a salesman described the difference between being involved and being committed. In bacon and eggs, the chicken is involved, the pig is committed. In Ukraine, NATO may be involved (and maybe not even that), but Ukraine is committed.

 

[jimbob]

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...disinformation-campaign-aids-putin-s-playbook

While Russian President Vladimir Putin recognised two breakaway regions of Ukraine as independent this week, pro-Russia online disinformation campaigners unleashed numerous images and videos depicting Ukraine as the aggressor. Their often crude efforts were promptly dismantled by experts and fact-checkers. But for Moscow, quantity overrides quality concerns.

longer article

 

[Samson]

I fear that the citizens of Ukraine will find out exactly how important they are to the members of NATO over the coming hours/days/weeks.

When I started at Andersen Consulting, a salesman described the difference between being involved and being committed. In bacon and eggs, the chicken is involved, the pig is committed. In Ukraine, NATO may be involved (and maybe not even that), but Ukraine is committed.

And then Poland.
As an historian friend of mine posits.
Sounds far fetched but at 69 Putin is running the clock.

 

[Darat]

I agree The Don. We will shuffle our papers, say it’s terrible and shouldn’t be allowed whilst hoping for a fast invasion so we can carry on getting our gas, accepting Russian money for political campaigns and get back to business as usual.

 

[Ryokan]

But what exactly are we supposed to do? Declare war on a country with the nuclear capability to lay waste to the planet?

 

[The Don]

I agree The Don. We will shuffle our papers, say it’s terrible and shouldn’t be allowed whilst hoping for a fast invasion so we can carry on getting our gas, accepting Russian money for political campaigns and get back to business as usual.

... and we certainly want Russian aggression confined to Ukraine and not not into any more "important" countries (i.e. NATO members, and possibly even then we may think twice about starting a nuclear war over Latvia).

 

[llwyd]

But what exactly are we supposed to do? Declare war on a country with the nuclear capability to lay waste to the planet?

Nope, but at least make it crystal clear that Nato members are a no-go area. Ukraine is not a member, but if it were, I doubt that they would be currently under attack.

 

[The Don]

But what exactly are we supposed to do? Declare war on a country with the nuclear capability to lay waste to the planet?

Good question.

Typically what we do is to provide "support" to one party in terms of equipment, advisors and training. Some of those trainers and advisors may be a little more "hands on" so to speak.

IMO the ideal result from a Western point of view is that Russia gets stuck in a lengthy guerrilla war in Ukraine in which thousands or tens of thousands of Russians are killed turning it into a modern-day equivalent of Afghanistan.

 

[Oystein]

It's now said troops are moving in from Belarus.

If true, that makes Belarus a participant and Lukashenko a war criminal.

 

[jimbob]

But what exactly are we supposed to do? Declare war on a country with the nuclear capability to lay waste to the planet?

This happened in Korea. And less obviously in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

 

[Darat]

If true, that makes Belarus a participant and Lukashenko a war criminal.

Add it to the sheet.

 

[The Don]

If true, that makes Belarus a participant and Lukashenko a war criminal.

So what ?

It's not like he'll ever face the consequences...

 

[KDLarsen]

So what ?

It's not like he'll ever face the consequences...

Quite.

It really feels like the last few years, anything involving russia has come down to "I know you know, and I know you know I know, what are you going to do about it?" trolling of epic proportions.

russia invades and annexes Crimea, holds a laughable fixed referendum, handily leaks the actual result, and sits back and watches the West do nothing. Hell, we even rewarded them by letting them stage the 2018 FIFA World Cup.

russia runs a state-level doping program, and nothing happens. Sure, they're banned from the Olympics, but gets to compete anyway, with everyone calling them russia to boot. One of their athletes is caught doping, they shrug and offers up outrageous excuses ("Granddad's medicine"), and to wit the competitor is allowed to continue anyway, because reasons.

Hell, just today, everyone is nodding and pointing out (myself included), that putin clearly recorded his invasion statement days ago, not even bothering to change out his tie or fix the metadata, when the russian military and securityh services run some of the most sophisticated cybercrime units, and could easily have fixed it if they wanted to.

 

[The Don]

Hell, just today, everyone is nodding and pointing out (myself included), that putin clearly recorded his invasion statement days ago, not even bothering to change out his tie or fix the metadata, when the russian military and securityh services run some of the most sophisticated cybercrime units, and could easily have fixed it if they wanted to.

At this stage, you have to assume that this is a flex.

Looking forward to the UEFA Champions League final in St Petersburg.

 

[Darat]

At this stage, you have to assume that this is a flex.

Looking forward to the UEFA Champions League final in St Petersburg.

It would be wrong to deny the ordinary people the opportunity to be part of such a worldwide sport, allowing this to go ahead can help build bridges with Russia and help foster goodwill....