The supernatural

[Scorpion]

Heydarian I have probably posted this before on this thread, But you take no notice.

Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.

In fact there is a hadith in which Muhammad sends for the Torah to have it read to him, to decide the fate of a Jew and Jewess for commiting adultery, and because the Torah says the punishment is stoning Muhammad had them stoned. This proves he knew the bible well.

Here are three verses in the quran that mention the psalms of the bible by name.


004.163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

017.055 And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

021.105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

In any case the quran mentions the Torah, or the books of Moses and Abraham at many verses; Here are some references.

sura 3.48 sura 4.54 sura 11.17 sura 11.110 sura 19.41 sura 17.2 sura 17.4 sura 23.49 sura 25.35 sura 40.53 sura 41.45 sura 45.16 sura 46.12 sura 53.36 sura 87.19 sura 28.2 sura 32.2 sura

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God.

 

[sackett]

.... The revelation reached Muhammad through the wormhole ....

Well, through some kind of hole anyway.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hello
We are ....
you are ...
we are all ....
together not against each other.
We are all amazing and charismatic. Do not worry. be calm. There is no danger. My specialty is safety. I am diligent in your protection and safety.
Our discussions are not going to offend anyone. Or change an opinion. No. Everyone is free. And has the choice.
I present you the beautiful flowers of the world.

 

[heydarian saeed]

When I review the discussions between me and your scientists and professors in this group, I am reminded of the debate between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr. Of course I'm not Einstein and you are not Bohr. But there is nothing wrong with giving examples. And I'm sure you and the friends of this group are aware of this.
The classical and quantum physics debates that are most famous between Einstein and Bohr occur in the history of science. Bohr had fully embraced quantum science. But Einstein was deeply skeptical. Of course, Einstein discovered the phenomenon of "quantum entanglement".
That is the essential truth of quantum mechanics. And distinguishes it from classical mechanics. So in many ways he is the father of Einstein quantum mechanics. But he had a bad relationship of love-hate with this issue!
Bohr only told Einstein in response to her latest great discovery, which was the discovery of quantum entanglement: "Ignore it !! It is generally accepted by most physicists that Bohr won and Einstein lost.
But my feeling is that I think justice has not been done to Einstein's views. My belief is that Einstein is the father of quantum physics. "Doubt about something leads to creation, innovation, the unveiling of new ideas and creativity."
Quantum entanglement, or as Einstein puts it, the "spooky effect of distance" for a particle, is a strange form of this phenomenon. Which can greatly contribute to the development of communications and quantum computers.
Unlike the usual quantum entanglement, which involves two particles in different positions. An intertwined particle has a wave function that is scattered over a long distance. But it does not exist in more than one place.
"In other words, an intertwined single particle can only be in one place at a given time," said researcher Lucy Ingam. But it can be placed at a very wide distance. When a particle is measured, its wave function immediately collapses to a fixed location.
For the first time, a team of researchers from the Griffith University Center for Quantum Dynamics and the University of Tokyo were able to show entanglement in a particle. And take a big step towards a better understanding of quantum mechanics.
This research on the Einstein-Podolski-Rosen paradox(EPR paradox) is focused.
It's good to have mentioned Schrödinger's cat. An example of quantum overlap is quantum. Which is adaptable to two rays of light. Which can be considered instead of a dead cat and a living cat, respectively. This example indicates that a cat is in a closed box. As long as the box remains closed, it can paradoxically be both alive and dead at the same time.
...

 

[heydarian saeed]

... I have to say the following:
Classical physics is intuitive. And seeks only objective evidence. And it requires objective evidence to prove any theory. On the other hand, the container of classical physics is filled to the brim with mathematical abstractions. Nothing new about mathematical abstractions.
Quantum abstractions are fundamentally different from classical. Modes and measurements are not real in the quantum world. And the relationship between them is intangible and intuitive. I think you have reached the conclusion I want to tell you from this introduction.
This is my statement:"Everything that exists in this world is material. The supernatural is not in our realm of understanding and science. And we should not make any judgments about it. Accepting or rejecting it is impossible. It has nothing to do with us. But in this world. We have the existence and materiality of intangible and intuitive sciences, and quantum science is a clear example of this claim.
Many things we do not know and do not understand can be understood by quantum science. To be clear: there are things that are not understandable to us. But they are defined and understood by quantum science. In a sense, these are scientific. But they are in the realm of quantum science.
We must always keep our minds open. And see new ideas. And check. If it's worth following. The big problem for us Muslims and religious people is that; We insist on old ideas and according to the ancient and obsolete sciences in understanding the reality of the world and our religion.
And we are left in superstition. Even in our superstitions we are extremists. And this is by no means true. I have read the whole Bible and its history at least once. And I compared it with the Quran. And I saw that there are no superstitions in the Qur'an. But in our religions, there are many superstitions in the practice of religion. That is, there are problems with us religious people. Not from the
Holy books and religion.
Your problem, infidels and atheists, is that instead of helping us religious people to understand the world according to your modern science, you are only judging us! And you see us as the enemy.
Advances in science and technology make everyone Honor not arrogant. We must help each other to understand things according to the science of the day. You can be sure if you study religious subjects with your knowledge.
And wherever you see superstitions, correct it. The followers of religion will accept your words if they are rational. And they give up their superstitions. I personally think so. I have no prejudice against my beliefs. Provided that science proves to me that each of my beliefs is superstitious. I accept.
At the moment I think the book of Quran is not superstitious. Rather, its meaners and interpreters have written superstitions. And they still think old and according to ancient science. And do not change. And this is a big mistake. Of course not all of them. And not all translations. Because the translation of some verses is fixed. And it is not related to science. Like family and social issues where the verses are fixed. And do not change over time. But scientific verses must be studied and translated according to modern science. Because if it is not so, it is a superstition. And it is not acceptable.
Thus We both seem to be acting in extremist groups (Religious and infidels). And the end result of this approach is by no means good. My opinion is not that the infidels are forced to accept the religion. No. Just as it is not right to deny it.
My idea is to see our own flaws and mistakes. And help each other solve this problem. Maybe with this approach we can achieve a lot in common in the future. And to achieve the right peace and tranquility.
And Let's make it beautiful of the earth. Otherwise, as we see, with the destruction of the earth, it will lead to the destruction of life. This is the torment of the last days of the earth and the life of humanity. Be vigilant. Prejudice does not solve any problem. And intensifies it.
I personally am not your enemy at all. I love you all with the utmost love. And I want to live in a beautiful world. And learn science from you. You are with your own ideas. And I with my own opinions. Respect each other. And love each other. Is it difficult for a Muslim to live together with an infidel in a global village with intimacy and peace? "
Good luck and health to all of you.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian I have probably posted this before on this thread, But you take no notice.

Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.

In fact there is a hadith in which Muhammad sends for the Torah to have it read to him, to decide the fate of a Jew and Jewess for commiting adultery, and because the Torah says the punishment is stoning Muhammad had them stoned. This proves he knew the bible well.

Here are three verses in the quran that mention the psalms of the bible by name.


004.163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

017.055 And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

021.105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

In any case the quran mentions the Torah, or the books of Moses and Abraham at many verses; Here are some references.

sura 3.48 sura 4.54 sura 11.17 sura 11.110 sura 19.41 sura 17.2 sura 17.4 sura 23.49 sura 25.35 sura 40.53 sura 41.45 sura 45.16 sura 46.12 sura 53.36 sura 87.19 sura 28.2 sura 32.2 sura

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God.

Hello dear rare friend. In response to your This message and messages 2507 and 2508, I must say that: We have had these discussions together before. And we talked about that in detail. I do not want to waste your precious time, especially the group scientists. Please raise a new discussion. Did you know that in the Qur'an, verse 104 in Sura 21 discusses the standard model of the Hawking universe? Muhammad is illiterate. Everything he said was through revelation and the message of God. Do not bore yourself. Revelation according to quantum physics was communicated to Muhammad through a wormhole. There are clear verses for this discussion in the Qur'an. Please be up to date.
We love your smile in your avatar photo. always be happy.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Well, through some kind of hole anyway.

Hi Professor. No. This is just your impression. How does a star fall? And be destroyed? Where does it go after destruction? Let's talk scientifically. The Qur'an is all about science that modern science is thirsty for. Unfortunately, we do not want to see the facts hidden in the Qur'an. The choice is yours ...

 

[heydarian saeed]

I have told you once, and I've told you twice. But you never listen to my advice ! Muhammad had the Torah read to him. There is a hadith where he sends for the Torah, and has the law read out to him.

As for the Quran being so wonderful nobody can write a verse like it, You sound like any other totally brainwashed Muslim groupie. To me the Quran is simplistic trash. I have an excellent library with countless far superior writings from many people from ancient times to the present day.

Muhammad was illiterate. How could he read the Torah? I will correct your sentence. God recited to Muhammad by revelation. We know you have read many books like me. This is not our argument. The wise God claims in the Qur'an that no one can bring a verse like the Qur'an. Did you pay attention? Your valuable books have their place. Our argument is for claiming to bring a verse like the Qur'an. No one has been able to. Even now no one can. And in the future until the end of the life of the world will not be able to. This is the claim of the wise God. Bring the opposite if you have a valid document. If you can recite a verse like the Qur'an yourself, claim so that we can examine it. And see. We are aware of your knowledge. Answer the claim of the Qur'an, please.

 

[abaddon]

Muhammad was illiterate. How could he read the Torah?

Oral tradition. No literacy required.

I will correct your sentence. God recited to Muhammad by revelation. We know you have read many books like me.

I have read many books. You are stuck with one book. Which of us has a broader perspective?

This is not our argument.

Correct. It is not our argument. It is not even the muslim argument. It is your argument and yours alone.

The wise God claims in the Qur'an that no one can bring a verse like the Qur'an. Did you pay attention? Your valuable books have their place. Our argument is for claiming to bring a verse like the Qur'an. No one has been able to. Even now no one can. And in the future until the end of the life of the world will not be able to.

Bollocks.I could write crap like that without even giving it a second thought. There is nothing special about it.

This is the claim of the wise God. Bring the opposite if you have a valid document. If you can recite a verse like the Qur'an yourself, claim so that we can examine it. And see. We are aware of your knowledge.

OK. From the Ainulindale

There was Eru, the one, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and He made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, That were the offspring of his thought and they were with him before aught else was made.

Must be true. I read it in a magic book. If you insist on proceeding in this manner, then I will further quote from that magic book.

Answer the claim of the Qur'an, please.

It's a load of baloney.

 

[MRC_Hans]

What makes you think whoever wrote the Qur'an was illiterate?

Hans

I made this question in response to heydarian saeed saying that the alleged scientific references in the Qua'ran could not have made by an illiterate.

And several answered that Muhammad was indeed illiterate. That may be so, but then he could obviously not have written anyting. A book must have been written by someone literate.

Hans

 

[heydarian saeed]

I am a conscious entity. Conscious entities can, and often do, have goals and therefore purposes.

Evolution is not a conscious entity. Nature is not a conscious entity. Neither, therefore, have goals or purposes.

You are once again assuming that God exists, and then pointing to things that happen that would only have goals and purposes if they were being directed by such a god, and claiming their imagined goals and purposes as proof that God does exist. It's a circular argument, and it makes no logical sense.



I don't know who wrote the Qu'ran, but whoever it was they were clearly unaware of most of what could loosely be described as the scientific knowledge of their time. They certainly show no awareness of scientific discoveries to come, your mental acrobatics attempting to prove otherwise notwithstanding. What they wrote is very repetitious and mostly consists of rants about unbelievers. There is very little in it of any value.

Hello
-I have already presented an article in this regard. Professor Suarez "discovered the existence of invisible consciousness in the smallest structural particle of the universe, which is photons." So all the structural particles of the universe are conscious. Therefore, they also have a goal. Like all living things that have consciousness. The idea that the universe is random and everything in it is an outdated and rejected idea.
- It is precisely We who agree with you that a circular sequence is irrational for a cause-and-effect relationship. And it is not true. So the universe has a root cause. It has a manufacturer. It has a stimulus. We say it is God. Give it whatever name you like. no problem. Just keep in mind that the person or thing you choose to create the universe is not the universe itself. If so, the story of the circular sequence is repeated.
- This is exactly what we agree with you on. They had no knowledge of scientific issues. They did not even understand the science of their own time. And they never knew the science of the future. They were also illiterate to read books. So who could tell the book of the Qur'an to Muhammad? There were not 10 literate people in all of Saudi Arabia. They do not even understand as much as medieval literacy.
- There is no obscenity in the Qur'an. If he said about the punishment of the disbelievers, it was their time about the disbelievers. Of course, I have defined the torment for you from the perspective of the Qur'an. The divine punishment in the Qur'an is the return of the universe to singularity. We all go. Because that is the fate and capacity of matter. No more can be expected from the material. But matter and everything in it is for the great purpose of human excellence and progress. For human happiness. I torment the scientific people, God never says. Rather, he says they have not reached certainty and need to do more research to be sure.
Unfortunately, some people say out of ignorance or opposition: God punishes or curses the disbelievers. Not at all. Our perception in this case is wrong. I have already told you the nature of torment. The return of the universe and everything in it is to singularity. Do not worry at all, I am with you.
Thank you for your clear and logical insight. Good luck

 

[malbui]

Hello
I have already presented an article in this regard. Professor Suarez "discovered the existence of invisible consciousness in the smallest structural particle of the universe, which is photons." So all the structural particles of the universe are conscious. Therefore, they also have a goal. Like all living things that have consciousness. The idea that the universe is random and everything in it is an outdated and rejected idea.

I genuinely live next door to CERN. I'll cycle down there later on and ask how the consciousness of fundamental particles is affecting their work. Maybe they could have proved the existence of the Higgs Boson more easily by asking it to give them a wave as it whizzed around the accelerator.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Oral tradition. No literacy required.

I have read many books. You are stuck with one book. Which of us has a broader perspective?

Correct. It is not our argument. It is not even the muslim argument. It is your argument and yours alone.

Bollocks.I could write crap like that without even giving it a second thought. There is nothing special about it.
OK. From the Ainulindale
Must be true. I read it in a magic book. If you insist on proceeding in this manner, then I will further quote from that magic book.

It's a load of baloney.

Hello
I am not stuck with the Quran. The Qur'an has not stuck with me either. I have read many books. And countless articles. But I have not seen it like the Quran. Every time I read the Qur'an, a new subject opens before me. And I'm surprised. Be aware that my specialty is occupational health and industrial safety. But because of my religion which is Islam and my holy book is the Quran. Therefore, I research the Qur'an. To find the truth. That seems to be the right approach. Is not that so? You also made many claims in this message. Can you say a verse like the Quran? I am very eager to hear from you.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I made this question in response to heydarian saeed saying that the alleged scientific references in the Qua'ran could not have made by an illiterate.

And several answered that Muhammad was indeed illiterate. That may be so, but then he could obviously not have written anyting. A book must have been written by someone literate.

Hans

Hello dear friend. that's great. I am also waiting to see who could have recited the Qur'an in the seventh century? And given to Muhammad. Also, thank you very much for your signature on your Message. You are tactful and strong.

 

[abaddon]

Hello
-I have already presented an article in this regard. Professor Suarez "discovered the existence of invisible consciousness in the smallest structural particle of the universe, which is photons." So all the structural particles of the universe are conscious. Therefore, they also have a goal. Like all living things that have consciousness. The idea that the universe is random and everything in it is an outdated and rejected idea.

Any chance you might leap into the current century? Nope.

- It is precisely We who agree with you that a circular sequence is irrational for a cause-and-effect relationship. And it is not true. So the universe has a root cause. It has a manufacturer. It has a stimulus. We say it is God. Give it whatever name you like. no problem. Just keep in mind that the person or thing you choose to create the universe is not the universe itself. If so, the story of the circular sequence is repeated.

Nope. "We" are not a collective anything. The current presentation of the universe may well be infinite in the past. You are stuck with the notion that the big bang was a beginning. It wasn't. Pop-sci presents it thus, so it is perhaps understandable that you accept that. But it isn't even vaguely true. I know I did indeed explain it to my children in such terms back when they were young, but now that they are all growed up I gave them the real deal.

I little expected to be required to do it again, but here we are.

- This is exactly what we agree with you on. They had no knowledge of scientific issues. They did not even understand the science of their own time. And they never knew the science of the future. They were also illiterate to read books.

Yup, they had no clue. Why would you believe anyone who you flat out believe had no clue?

So who could tell the book of the Qur'an to Muhammad? There were not 10 literate people in all of Saudi Arabia. They do not even understand as much as medieval literacy.

Facepalm. Do you realise what you just said? Since you are not a plumber, or an electrician, of a tree surgeon, or a postman, therefore nobody else can be. That is your claim. Nobody can listen to someone else and write it down? As we exchange messages on a forum designed for that purpose right now? Seriously?

- There is no obscenity in the Qur'an. If he said about the punishment of the disbelievers, it was their time about the disbelievers.

The Koran is obscene. I am aware that you want to pretend it is not, but we can read what it actually says.

Of course, I have defined the torment for you from the perspective of the Qur'an.

And you want the punishment, don't you. Of course you do.

The divine punishment in the Qur'an is the return of the universe to singularity. We all go. Because that is the fate and capacity of matter. No more can be expected from the material. But matter and everything in it is for the great purpose of human excellence and progress. For human happiness. I torment the scientific people, God never says. Rather, he says they have not reached certainty and need to do more research to be sure.

Incoherent rubbish.

Unfortunately, some people say out of ignorance or opposition: God punishes or curses the disbelievers. Not at all. Our perception in this case is wrong. I have already told you the nature of torment. The return of the universe and everything in it is to singularity. Do not worry at all, I am with you.
Thank you for your clear and logical insight. Good luck

Are you even aware that you could be killed for such heresy?

 

[heydarian saeed]

But the babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it?

Hello. I did not understand your message. Please be clear.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hello. Thank you for your wrong judgment. Rest.

Which bit is wrong? You can't just declare that I'm wrong without explaining it Heydarian.

 

[abaddon]

But the babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it?

Hello. I did not understand your message. Please be clear.

It is possible that he has never heard of the Babel Fish. But I doubt it. Thanks for the fish, BTW

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hello. I did not understand your message. Please be clear.

It's a reference.

 

[abaddon]

It's a reference.

Sorry, Mark, but I do not think it is possible to be that oblivious to culture. There may indeed be a bridge involved.