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I bet if I took the trouble to go back to the early days of this CT thread (part 1), we'd see Vixen making submarine claims. Although maybe that was only after the fishing boat story was so thoroughly debunked that she gave up?
I bet if I took the trouble to go back to the early days of this CT thread (part 1), we'd see Vixen making submarine claims. Although maybe that was only after the fishing boat story was so thoroughly debunked that she gave up?
The case of the sinking of the Estonia is to be reopened. This was decided September last year and the new investigation begins on Thursday 8 July 2021. Several investigators, including engineers and marine experts will be taking a boat out to the stricken ship which lies 74m to 85m underwater on the seabed. There were talks of covering it with concrete or granite rocks after the accident, but this was rejected. This means the investigation teams will be disturbing the final resting place of over six hundred people, so various memorial services from the neighbouring countries will be held in honour of them on the 9th July 2021.
28th September, 1994, the cruise ferry ship, MS Estonia, on its way from Tallinn to Stockholm, suddenly sank in the early hours of the morning. The Baltic Sea was rough but that was not something the crews were not used to. A May Day distress call went out as the ship listed to its side and then sank bow down stern up. It was carrying 889 passengers and crew, of which 138 were rescued, another 121 or so bodies were recovered, whilst the remaining 630 who drowned remain in entombed in their watery grave, 41 km from the Finnish island of Ütö, although the waters themselves are international waters. Most of the victims were Swedes and Estonians, with a few other nationalities, including ten Finns.
The official inquiry concluded that the cause of the accident was that the bow doors to the parking area for cars and lorries had come unhinged, allowing sea water to seep in, when it eventually fell off. Survivors report hearing a bang. A treaty between several countries was signed that it was unlawful for anyone to approach the spot where the stricken vessel lies, and it is regularly patrolled by coastguards. One country which did not sign the treaty was Germany.
One day, a couple of investigative German journalists engaged a boat to approach the MS Estonia, they dived below the waves and took pictures. They discovered something staggering: there was a large hole at the side of the ship. This has led to speculation that the disaster was caused by a submarine crashing into it, or one of the lorries, which included Russian military equipment, said to be sneaking secret weapons out of Russia, was the cause, i.e., some kind of explosive. The Germans involved are likely to be arrested and charged if they ever set foot in Sweden.
The new investigation is thanks to the revelations of this German team, as exposed in the Discovery documentary.
At first the Sub was an escort that somehow rammed the ship, then it changed to a hostile sub that rammed the ship. then it was a torpedo fired from a hostile sub.
At first the Sub was an escort that somehow rammed the ship, then it changed to a hostile sub that rammed the ship. then it was a torpedo fired from a hostile sub.
There were also tales of subs attaching mines to the Estonia and subs rescuing or abducting people from the Estonia and rather odd talk of wheeled subs.
As I understand it the breach is just at the level of the car deck on Decks 2 and 3. Decks 1 and 0 are some two metres below the waterline. However, if the car deck infrastructure, such as its floor, was breached, then, yes water would flood in. There is a vertical tear that reaches down into the swimming pool and sauna area. You recall, Henrik Sillaste, engineer was fixing the public toilets in that area (he says) and for some reason made his way to the engine control room (for him to have seen the monitor of what was happening on the car deck). He would have had to shut and close various watertight alarmed doors. Why would he join Treu and Kadak int he ECR unless he was concerned about water swirling around his feet, possibly? He is reported by a newspaper as saying they were up to their knees in water. Somehow this assertion did not make it on to his statement according to the JAIC. It seems clear the three men at 0100 were frantically operating the bilge pumps because of an ingress of water below the water line and before the bow visor detached.
No, he's not, and no reasonable reading of the excerpt supports that interpretation. You've simply latched on to the phrase "extensive Zionist criminal network" so you can pretend that he's not smearing all Jews. Tell us, Vixen, how does the following paragraph relate to an alleged Jewish Mafia?
Aware of the increasing prevalence and dominance of Zionist Jews in the political, financial, and academic sectors, I came to the conclusion that I was living in Jewish times. As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American population.
Also, kindly explain why Bollyn put the word Holocaust in quotation marks.
Finally, please answer the question you ignored, namely, if it's so obvious even to a layman that WTC 7 shouldn't have collapsed, then why aren't structural engineers in Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba shouting it from the housetops?
Er, Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba do not have freedom of speech or integrity of its news agencies.
I am not aware Bollyn put the word Holocaust in quotation marks, I am not the slightest bit interested in the guy or his ideological views. I would say that denying the Holocaust is a particularly cruel and offensive claim to make if that is what Bollyn is doing.
There is no issue to avoid. As others have explained, the problem with your appeal to this example is that it is not on point.
You still haven't found any non-Bollyn sources for the claim that the Egyptians were subjected to enforced disappearance, have you? Bollyn remains your sole source for that claim, and you continue to believe him without corroboration.
That is nonsense. Bollyn was simply quoting well-known Swedish investigative journalist Sven Anér, who is the person who acquired the receipts from Arlanda Airport, Stockholm, of the US Cargo plane which carried away nine unknown unnamed passengers on 29.9.1994 iirc, or thereabouts, the same plane owners that carted off the two Egyptians at the beck and call of warfaring Dubya Bush.
Sven Anér is best known for his tireless investigative journalism into the assassination of Olof Palme.
...You've obviously never served in anybody's military...
Nope. Been debunked numerous times already.
Nope. BS, debunked at least 100 times already.
No explosions, just the bow visor failing in heavy seas it was not designed for.
,
I believe they're still on the ship today. And the bridge crew is usually the last to know, and in this case, literally because they couldn't see the bow.
Whut?
They got one off. They called it in too late in the game, that's all.
Fault of the command element for not doing proper damage control assessment. You might want to look into at what point the internal staircases would have become unpassable sometime.
Command waited too long to abandon ship.
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....just stop with this one.
You mean the exaggerated stormy weather that had witnesses reporting waves breaking over the bow of Estonia?
The captain went down with the ship, and God has a really great lawyer.
,
To be clear, the bow visor could have broken off for a hundred different reasons, but heavy seas at flank speed isn't one of them. And again, it wasn't from "day one", as there is no record of such a statement.
Whose military? Why?
Again, day one?
And once became clear the visor was the cause of the sinking, why wouldn't one look into the safety of Ro-Ro ferries (considering their history).?
Citation please of where it is confirmed the so-called missing crew are still on the ship.
As for the command crew not seeing the bow, it had a green light which showed when the hydraulic sensor for the Atlantic lock was in place. The stuff of not seeing the bow is just JAIC trivial detail.
What do you mean command waited too long to abandon ship? The crew had regular drills. How can you evacuate a ship with a thousand people if it is stricken by determined saboteurs, no signals, change of watch, series of explosions...?
On-Scene-Commmander Captain Esa Mäkela stated that the storm was no worse than any September storm in the Baltic.
For a further remainder: the only people that colloquially use the term "disappeared" for the thing that happened to the Egyptians are you and an anti-semite conspiracy theorist. No one else does that.
This one really baffling argument from you.
What happened to Egyptians has nothing to do with Estonia. It's clear that whatevet happend to the missing Estonians (narrator: they died in the sinking), it wasn't the same thing that happened to the Egyptians.
Still you are willing to hitch your horse to his wagon even though it makes you look really bad.
Citation, please of where it is confirmed they died in the sinking. Helsingin Sanomat confirmed that Captain Andresson went down with his ship and a diver claimed to have seen a bullet through his head, so that is one.
Where is the confirmation that the others did not survive after all, after having been listed as survivors?
As I understand it the breach is just at the level of the car deck on Decks 2 and 3. Decks 1 and 0 are some two metres below the waterline. However, if the car deck infrastructure, such as its floor, was breached, then, yes water would flood in. There is a vertical tear that reaches down into the swimming pool and sauna area. You recall, Henrik Sillaste, engineer was fixing the public toilets in that area (he says) and for some reason made his way to the engine control room (for him to have seen the monitor of what was happening on the car deck). He would have had to shut and close various watertight alarmed doors. Why would he join Treu and Kadak int he ECR unless he was concerned about water swirling around his feet, possibly? He is reported by a newspaper as saying they were up to their knees in water. Somehow this assertion did not make it on to his statement according to the JAIC. It seems clear the three men at 0100 were frantically operating the bilge pumps because of an ingress of water below the water line and before the bow visor detached.
The hole is above the waterline. We can see it is above the waterline. It opens on to the car deck.
Why would the engineer have to open and close watertight doors? which ones do you think he had to open and close to get to the engineering control room? He was working in the machinery space, guess where the control room is?
What do you think operating the bilge pumps involves? they are either pumping or they are not.
Dunno. Perhaps you meant the Russian FSB? Or the Russian FSO, or FAPSI even. Former Soviet Union would fit the acronym, but not the context. This is just another example of your sloppy thinking.
And it is "espionage" (note correct spelling) which would mean the Russian FSB.
And what is your problem with waiting for actual evidence before drawing any actual conclusions? And what makes you think I read ANY newspapers? Let alone consume any of Murdoch's media nonsense?
FSU. As well as the Felix Report, two Russian newspapers reported that the Estonia was carrying 240kg of heroin and 40 tonnes of cobalt IIRC for nucleur fuel rods. They claimed Captain Andresson was forced by a Mafia to open the bow visor and car ramp to dispose of it as the Swedish customs had been tipped off. Whether true or not, the stern ramp had been opened slightly when the divers went down to have a look and a diving intern Harri Ruotsalainen claims he saw sonar images of trucks on the seabed at the time.
And certainly, the Swedes seemed completely unsurprised by the disaster, immediately handwaving it away as 'design fault in the bow visor locks'. A wave and all that.
You have not understood it for at least 6 months from the very first time you posted it here, despite having your misunderstanding explained in detail numerous times.
The rest of your post below is irrelevant to my question, but I had fun reading it anyway.
Decks 1 and 0 are some two metres below the waterline. However, if the car deck infrastructure, such as its floor, was breached, then, yes water would flood in. There is a vertical tear that reaches down into the swimming pool and sauna area. You recall, Henrik Sillaste, engineer was fixing the public toilets in that area (he says) and for some reason made his way to the engine control room (for him to have seen the monitor of what was happening on the car deck). He would have had to shut and close various watertight alarmed doors. Why would he join Treu and Kadak int he ECR unless he was concerned about water swirling around his feet, possibly? He is reported by a newspaper as saying they were up to their knees in water. Somehow this assertion did not make it on to his statement according to the JAIC. It seems clear the three men at 0100 were frantically operating the bilge pumps because of an ingress of water below the water line and before the bow visor detached.
I have hilighted the vagueness and waffling in your post. Your speculation is much less than convincing.
The bilge pumps cannot be operated "frantically" as per your hyperbole . They are electric. You turn them on with a switch and they operate. Do you visualize a crew cranking levers up and down working hand pumps?
Are you now abandoning your "bomb on the bow door" claim and sticking with your intentional submarine collision fantasy?
No more attempted hijacking, or shooting on the bridge?
Ahh, so that would be "explosives at the bow", where no (necessarily present, had there indeed been explosion) evidence of explosive deformation or residue has ever been discovered....
and
"a submarine or similar, hitting the starboard", where a) the supposed impact point was above the waterline (somewhat ineffective, if the aim is to sink the ship - not to mention difficult in itself for a submarine to inflict), and b) there's ample evidence to suggest that the damage to the starboard hull was actually caused by the ship landing on a rock outcrop on the sea bed on the night it sank.
Apart from that, your bizarre, ludicrous and utterly unsubstantiated conspiracy theory about the cause of the Estonia disaster is really good!
I never did understand what enjoyment people get heckling from the back of the hall. Maybe you think it is clever.
Royal Navy military explosives expert Brian Braidwood and Fellowes of the Naval Academy concluded there was almost certainly some plastic explosive devices placed at strategic positions along the sides near the locks.
Prof. Ida Westermann of Norway, concludes that the metal sample she took from the bow visor shows signs of deformation consistent with extreme conditions.
As for the command crew not seeing the bow, it had a green light which showed when the hydraulic sensor for the Atlantic lock was in place. The stuff of not seeing the bow is just JAIC trivial detail.
From the report Chapter 13 Development of the Accident
Section 13.4 Advance indications and alarms from the bow area
As described in 3.3.5 indicator lamps on the navigation bridge showed locked or unlocked visor and ramp, respectively. The indicator lamps for the ramp were controlled from the locking devices in such a way that all devices had to be in the position ordered for the lamps to go on, green for locked ramp and red for unlocked. Since one of the locking bolts was most likely not fully extended already at departure, there was no indication on the bridge that the ramp was locked.
The indicator lamps for the locking of the visor were, as far as the Commission has been able to verify, connected in the original way, controlled via the position sensors for the side locking devices only. The lamps thus did not directly indicate the position of the visor. The side locks were in locked position during the last voyage and the visor position lamp was thus green. The green light remained also after the separation of the visor as the side locking devices remained in locked position. Hence no light indication was given on the bridge when the visor started to become detached.
MRCC Turku in the police witness statements says they could not capture Estonia's image n the sonar except very vaguely once in a left hand corner (which could have been anything).
Mariella and Europa both said they could not see Estonia on their radar or had trouble doing so.
There is a transcript and that transcript tells a sorry story of desperate communication problems with the young officers papping their pants and begging to know whether help was coming.
Both Mariella and Europa had to use their own NMT handheld mobile phones to ring up MRCC Turku on its land line.
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. They are electric. You turn them on with a switch and they operate. Do you visualize a crew cranking levers up and down working hand pumps? 