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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part IV

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VIXEN: STOP USING CONTEMPORANEOUS NEWSPAPER REPORTS FROM THE DAYS FOLLOWING THE DISASTER AS A RELIABLE SOURCE. THEY ARE NOT RELIABLE SOURCES.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
They named the model. At the time that would have positively identified the type.

They didn't tell us they were manual and they didn't tell us they were automatic. From what they did tell us it is utterly obvious they were manual and it's ridiculous to pretend there is any room for doubt.
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The JAIC-appointed expert, Asser Koivisto, marine communications expert tells you it was an automatically-activated buoy.

Strangely, the buoys and Koivisto's report have vanished from the archives.
 
Vixen said:
When the Wilhelm Gustloff sank, it was not reported in the German press. Does that mean it is a conspiracy theory that it sank?

So do you really believe 'everything is transparent and never covered up?'

How come we never heard about all the Christmas parties at No. 10 last year, or is that also a conspiracy theory, by your own definition?

The fact you couldn't care less about a thing does not mean nobody else should, either.
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Ah no, you misunderstand. The thing that people don't care about is your insistence that the authorities (and most contributors to this thread) should pay serious attention to the crackpot conspiracy theories - all of which a) are not supported by a shred of reliable evidence, and b) are contradicted by the reliable evidence we do have. You position is laughable and wrong. Provably wrong. Hope that helps your understanding of the situation :)
 
Jack by the hedge said:
You have a newspaper quote of Lehtola, translated as "something has happened to it". Here_to_learn has a report saying Lehtola declined to speculate. That's not evidence for your claim about Bildt.

Yes, the politicians appointed a committee to investigate. That's what ought to happen. That's not evidence that the politicians told the experts what to say. That is conspiracy theory thinking.

Your other quote is from EFD and I frankly don't trust it an inch.
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Where did Lehtola get this soundbite from if not from Bildt, who was the person asserting it was the bow visor, according to Laar, who believed it could be sabotage?

Lehtola was a lawyer. He did what he was told for his handsome pay a commission spokesman. He was not going to rock the boat (no pun intended) and I dare say he self-justified it as being a matter of 'national security' to back up Bildt and Svensson.
 
Vixen said:
The JAIC-appointed expert, Asser Koivisto, marine communications expert tells you it was an automatically-activated buoy.

Strangely, the buoys and Koivisto's report have vanished from the archives.
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Show us the evidence that this is what he "tells us". I mean, you must have supporting evidence to have made that claim about what he said/wrote, right? Right?
 
Vixen said:
Where did Lehtola get this soundbite from if not from Bildt, who was the person asserting it was the bow visor, according to Laar, who believed it could be sabotage?

Lehtola was a lawyer. He did what he was told for his handsome pay a commission spokesman. He was not going to rock the boat (no pun intended) and I dare say he self-justified it as being a matter of 'national security' to back up Bildt and Svensson.
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Nice sleight-of-hand false inference there! Your intellectual dishonesty continues to amaze and amuse in equal quantities.
 
Vixen said:
It was in the early edition of the Aftonbladet. If Svensson only got there after 05:00 there is no way it could have got the copy out the same morning.
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If that were the case, it's just as likely that the journalists reported what they thought was going to happen as if it already had. It's a tactic for getting the scoop. Sometimes it results in jumping the gun with inaccurate information. Just one of many reasons that newspapers publish errata and sometimes even retractions.


And again, next day:




If he was 'first on the site' he must have arrived at a similar time to the Finnish helicopters who arrived circa 03:05
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He wasn't. Aftonbladet got it wrong. That's really all there is to it.
 
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Reformed Offlian said:
Non-responsive.

The JAIC report accounts for all the people Svensson is claimed by your other sources to have rescued. It doesn't just credit him with the one brought back on Y 64.

ETA: It's ironic that you would choose to make this remark, since it is *you* trying to make part of the story (the one person Svensson brought onto Y64) into the full story (all the people Svensson is supposed to have rescued).
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He was feted as the main hero by the Swedish papers.
 
Reformed Offlian said:
If that were the case, it's just as likely that the journalists reported what they thought was going to happen as if it already had. It's a tactic for getting the scoop. Sometimes it results in jumping the gun with inaccurate information. Just one of many reasons that newspapers publish errata and sometimes even retractions.




He wasn't. The Aftonbladet got it wrong. That's really all there is to it.
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Vixen still apparently clings to the misguided and erroneous belief that the newspaper reports from the days after the disaster were/are accurate and reliable, and that therefore they can be used as trusted sources.
 
Vixen said:
Where did Lehtola get this soundbite from if not from Bildt, who was the person asserting it was the bow visor, according to Laar, who believed it could be sabotage?
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No. Garbage again. Both your quote and Here_to_learn's imply the press asked Lehtola about the visor, and he gave a non-committal answer.

Your tale of Laar-said-Bildt-said is from EFD which, as I already said, I don't trust an inch.
 
Vixen said:
The JAIC-appointed expert, Asser Koivisto, marine communications expert tells you it was an automatically-activated buoy.



Strangely, the buoys and Koivisto's report have vanished from the archives.
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He tells us no such thing. He specifically tells us a switch is required to make it work. In your colossal ignorance, you've supposed he must be referring to a non-existent shipping safety switch.
 
Reformed Offlian said:
And rightly so (at least, that he be feted as a hero. I don't know what "the main hero" means in this context) What does that have to do with what the JAIC reported about him?
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The Helsingin Sanomat had the Super Puma helicopter that saved 35 as heroes of the night. Why shouldn't the Swedes have Svensson and Moberg as their heroes?


At least Svensson got his medal.
 
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