Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

[Cosmic Yak]

Yes, we are fortunate that common cold and flu viruses have very low fatality rates and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs.

If a person is in the last stages of terminal cancer or heart failure and their immune system is shot, a cold or flu virus can lead to pneumonia or C. diff which can be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Children rarely suffer debilitating effects or death from flu viruses, and almost never from coronaviruses.

You show me your linked stats and I'll show you mine from the CDC.

You don't remember what you wrote in your immediately previous post? That doesn't reflect well on your cognitive abilities.

Allow me to remind you. You wrote, "and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs" (bold mine). Only leaves no room for "rarely". Or does the meaning/use of that simple adverb reside beyond your comprehension?

Since you have historically misconstrued data, I will just provide this applicable referenced quote, the context of which has been common knowledge for decades (at least). From - https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829

"There are millions of influenza infections in the U.S. each year. The statistics from public health agencies make clear that some of these infections lead to flu-related deaths. These deaths often are caused by pneumonia and other complications. Younger children, older adults, pregnant women, and people with compromised immune systems are at greatest risk."

I agree completely with your link.

1. That link contradicts your previous post about the risks of flu. Just for the record, do you now accept that your post was wrong?
2. As you agree with what the CDC says in that article, will you now stop posting about how they are lying?

Quote where I was wrong.

The CDC has said that the young and pregnant women are at greater risk from flu viruses than cold viruses, including CV-19, and I have taken them at their word on this.

Is it that you genuinely don't remember what you posted, or is this some kind of weird performance art thing?

 

[bruto]

Tom Palven, firgive me if I did not wade through the entire quagmire, but you seem to be saying that the CDC calls Covid 19 a cold virus. Is there a specific statement to that effect?

 

[eerok]

Well, a cold and covid-19 are both coronaviruses. In other news, decapitation and a paper cut are both cuts.

 

[Tom Palven]

Tom Palven, firgive me if I did not wade through the entire quagmire, but you seem to be saying that the CDC calls Covid 19 a cold virus. Is there a specific statement to that effect?

1. Read the first sentence. Covid-19 is a coronavirus.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu


2. Coronaviruses are cold viruses:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

Are you capable of connecting two dots?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

1. Read the first sentence. Covid-19 is a coronavirus.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu


2. Coronaviruses are cold viruses:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

Are you capable of connecting two dots?

'Join the dots' is classic conspirathink, and usually wrong.
Let's see what the CDC has to say, clearly, and without the need to 'connect the dots':

Common human coronaviruses, including types 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses, like the common cold. Most people get infected with one or more of these viruses at some point in their lives. This information applies to common human coronaviruses and should not be confused with coronavirus disease 2019 (formerly referred to as 2019 Novel Coronavirus).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general-information.html

Tom, Tom, Tom. You're either really, really bad at doing research and forming coherent ideas, or you're really good at parodying conspiracy theories. Are you a Poe, or just hopelessly confused?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

1. Read the first sentence. Covid-19 is a coronavirus.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Yes, SARS-CoV-2 (which causes the disease known as COVID-19) is a coronavirus.

2. Coronaviruses are cold viruses:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

No, that link does not say coronaviruses are cold viruses.

Here is its only mention of coronaviruses, with links as in the original:

Other viruses that can cause colds include respiratory syncytial virus, human parainfluenza viruses, adenovirus, common human coronaviruses, and human metapneumovirus.

The link for common human coronaviruses takes you to this, with link and text sizes as in the original:

The seven coronaviruses that can infect people are:

[size=+2]Common human coronaviruses[/size]

1. 229E (alpha coronavirus)
2. NL63 (alpha coronavirus)
3. OC43 (beta coronavirus)
4. HKU1 (beta coronavirus)​

[size=+2]Other human coronaviruses[/size]

5. MERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS)
6. SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS)
7. SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19)​

From those two lists, it is clear (to those who can read English) that the group known as "common human coronaviruses" does not include the virus that causes COVID-19.

Are you capable of connecting two dots?

Connecting those dots tells me Tom Palven is unable or unwilling to understand what is written on the CDC web pages he cited.

 

[welshdean]

Tom, are you really Doc?

 

[bruto]

1. Read the first sentence. Covid-19 is a coronavirus.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu


2. Coronaviruses are cold viruses:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

Are you capable of connecting two dots?

I have, at some time in my life, managed to connect a dot or two, but had the great misfortune of once long ago being told that there is such a thing as logic, and the fatal result of being the son of a statistical epidemiologist who broke to me the dreadful news that membership in a set is not itself contagious. That is to say, saying A is a type of B is not a statement about B. Or for those intimidated by such abstractions, that even though it is true that birds and men have two legs, we are not all turkeys.

So it appears that the CDC, in a footnote, might be construed in a hasty reading to identify Covid as being one of the causes of cold symptoms. By your logic, since death is also an occasional symptom of Covid, death and Covid are also the same thing.

If I missed in your link the statement you make that Coronaviruses are cold viruses, do please point out my error. It is so long since I learned to read that I might have missed some new technique.

 

[Foster Zygote]

For someone who pretends that it's the "Covidists" that are adhering to a religion, Tom sure does have his own Scripture that he's sticking to through thick or thin. Evidently that silly line about "pandemic of Biblical proportions" is just too good a strawman to let go of (among others)- no matter how many times he's told that nobody has ever framed it as such, he keeps returning to it like a fundie to his "Jeeeeeezus saves!"

He certainly doesn't like it when you point out that denying overwhelming scientific consensus, misrepresenting facts, beating up a straw man and cherry picking any crackpot who says what you want to hear is exactly what young earth creationists do.

 

[carlitos]

........
Are you capable of connecting two dots?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Tom, are you really Doc?

While the similarities are striking, I can't imagine DOC, even in an attempt to throw people off the scent of socks, trying to discredit science by claiming that it is anything like the religion so dear to him.

Tom is very keen to let everyone know that he is far too clever for religion, while remaining blind to the fact that he's simply replaced it with a secular substitute.

 

[jimbob]

Meanwhile, Q-promoting millionaire, John Mappin entertaining prominent UK antivaxers.

Piers Corbyn, James Melville, and Laurence Fox:










But somehow they're claiming those who are transparent about their funding, rationale, and scientific credentials who are the pawns of the shadowy elites.

 

[Tom Palven]

Tom is very keen to let everyone know that he is far too clever for religion, while remaining blind to the fact that he's simply replaced it with a secular substitute.

Unh-uh.

Orthodox Covidism is the currently popular mass-movement religious substitute, and to question it is heresy according to its True Believers.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Unh-uh.

Orthodox Covidism is the currently popular mass-movement religious substitute, and to question it is heresy according to its True Believers.

Right. And the massive majority of the world's nurses, doctors and medical scientists are all irrationally devoted to it. You're just that much smarter than all of them.

When creationists reject scientific consensus, it's because they're dumb. But when you do it, it's because you're too clever to be fooled.

 

[sackett]

"Too clever to be fooled."

How dare you say that outrageous thing of our gallant champions, the anti-vacciniators! They are nothing of the sort!

Exactly the opposite in fact!

 

[Resume]

Unh-uh.

Orthodox Covidism is the currently popular mass-movement religious substitute, and to question it is heresy according to its True Believers.

With nore than 5 million dead worldwide and multi millions more suffering long term health issues, to question the effects of COVID is to question reality.

 

[jimbob]

With nore than 5 million dead worldwide and multi millions more suffering long term health issues, to question the effects of COVID is to question reality.

As has been pointed out multiple times.

More Russians have died than you'd expect since 2020. 0.2% of the population by acknowledged Covid. And 0.4% of the population by something that happens to coincide with Covid peaks, but which isn't recognised as Covid by the Russian state. It's Covid.

0.6% of Russia, 0.6% of Peru (both acknowledged and actual in that case) and until the data stopped, similar numbers for Belarus.

 

[MBDK]

Orthodox Covidism is the currently popular mass-movement religious substitute, and to question it is heresy according to its True Believers.

Tom, I have no idea what your true intentions are in his thread, but I would like to know what your professed opinion of the scientific method is.

 

[Jodie]

All I can say is "seeing is believing". Had it not been a HIPPA violation some of these folks should have toured an ICU during the peak of the pandemic.

 

[smartcooky]

Orthodox Covidism is the currently popular mass-movement religious substitute, and to question it is heresy according to its True Believers.

The above is at best, an idiotic statement - at worse a downright, demonstrable and dangerous lie.

The only religion on display here is Anti-Vaxxism. The real sheeple are the ones following the idiots down the rabbit hole of stupidity and ignorance.. those who blindly consume the misinformation they are brainwashed and predisposed to believe, which they get from fake news outlets and websites.

The rest of us, that is, those living in the reality of the real world, understand the danger and are taking steps to mitigate that danger by getting vaccinated and wearing masks, not only to protect ourselves, but to protect the anti-vaxxer morons as well. We either understand how the mRNA vaccines work because we have taken the time and made the effort to do the research in order to learn, or we trust the hundreds of thousands of highly trained and qualified medical professionals who have specialized in this field for most of the adult lives and who have no motivation to do us harm (and have even taken a solemn oath to not do so) to tell us the truth and not to lead us astray.

With reference to all the currently available mRNA Covid vaccines....

1. It is a verifiable, observable fact that these vaccines are

- overwhelmingly safe!
- offer protection from infection!

2. It is a verifiable, observable fact that...

- if you are vaccinated and do get infected, you are many times less likely to become seriously ill, and even less likely to die!
- vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are less likely to infect others because the high viral loads exist for much shorter times!


3. It is a verifiable, observable fact that vaccinated people...

- DO NOT shed the virus and cannot infect others if they are not themselves infected!
- DO NOT become magnetized!
- HAVE NOT been injected with a tracking chip!
- DO NOT cause the mutations that lead to variants!
- HAVE NOT had their DNA altered!*

* That last one is a real FOMCL for me, because it displays in its believers a fundamental ignorance of how DNA actually works.