Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

[Vixen]

Where else was the water coming from?
Where is the hole in the hull that would allow the engine room to flood?

From the starboard breach in the hull. If you recall, there were a series of bangs/or a bang, as witnessed by some survivors, and/or sensations of a collision/massive jolt just before the vessel listed violently towards starboard.

 

[GlennB]

I am sure it is but the fact remains it is easier to float on your back than on your stomach. This is to do with centre of buoyancy and little to do with whether you have a snorkel or not. The snorkel simply enables you to examine what is going on underwater and hence you need to be facing down.

Please explain why rather than just make the assertion. The snorkel enables you to breathe and comfortably float face down rather than hold your breath.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I am sure it is but the fact remains it is easier to float on your back than on your stomach. This is to do with centre of buoyancy and little to do with whether you have a snorkel or not. The snorkel simply enables you to examine what is going on underwater and hence you need to be facing down.

It is as easy to float on your front as it is your back.

Ask a diver.

 

[Andy_Ross]

From the starboard breach in the hull. If you recall, there were a series of bangs/or a bang, as witnessed by some survivors, and/or sensations of a collision/massive jolt just before the vessel listed violently towards starboard.

That 'breach' is above the waterline and forward. How is it flooding the machinery spaces?

There are four sets of stairways and lifts along the length of the Estonia, the two main, and largest of these are above the machinery spaces towards the after end of the ship.
Estonia was sinking by the stern, flooding was worse in the after portion of the ship.

 

[Vixen]

It is as easy to float on your front as it is your back.

Ask a diver.

We were not talking about artificial aids such as scuba tanks, flippers and snorkels, we were talking about the human body in its own right, hence the qualifier 'ceteris paribus'. So yeah, sure you can even bring in the topic of airbeds or specialist synchronised Olympic swimmers, if you like, but it doesn't cancel out the point being made.

 

[Andy_Ross]

We were not talking about artificial aids such as scuba tanks, flippers and snorkels, we were talking about the human body in its own right, hence the qualifier 'ceteris paribus'. So yeah, sure you can even bring in the topic of airbeds or specialist synchronised Olympic swimmers, if you like, but it doesn't cancel out the point being made.

You don't need 'artificial aids'
It is just as easy to float on your front as your back. This is not controversial, get in a pool and try it.
It is easier to breath when you are floating on your back for obvious reasons, that is the only difference.

 

[abaddon]

Vixen, what is a marlinspike? How is it used to cut glass?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Vixen, what is a marlinspike? How is it used to cut glass?

Remembering that it is toughened glass as found in car windows.

 

[Kid Eager]

We were not talking about artificial aids such as scuba tanks, flippers and snorkels, we were talking about the human body in its own right, hence the qualifier 'ceteris paribus'. So yeah, sure you can even bring in the topic of airbeds or specialist synchronised Olympic swimmers, if you like, but it doesn't cancel out the point being made.

Oh yes it does… but you keep doing you.

 

[Myriad]

Certain colorful expressions I learned as a civilian employee of the Coast Guard in the late 1970s suggest there might be gender- sex-based differences in the most stable floating attitude of the adult human body, at least when unconscious or dead.

 

[abaddon]

Remembering that it is toughened glass as found in car windows.

No fire truck ever leaves the station without a marlinspike and hammer.

 

[Matthew Best]

Likewise, a boat can float either upright or upside down. In fact, buoyancy is invariably better when it is upside down.

That used to be the case, but boatbuilders soon realized, and now they build all boats upside-down in the first place - they just put everything inside the boat upside-down as well so if you're inside (or outside) you don't notice the difference.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The JAIC clearly states it was the windows on the 'aft deck' that were likely broken by the waves, ditto the Rockwater report of where they had to cut the windows with a marlin spike and breakdown dividers (doors) with oxy-acetyline cutters.

Doesn't address the relevant point. Again.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

'If' being the operative word, when eyewitnesses from Deck 1 relate there was no water coming down the stairs.

So you've eliminated one unidentified staircase as the route the water took.

 

[whoanellie]

That used to be the case, but boatbuilders soon realized, and now they build all boats upside-down in the first place - they just put everything inside the boat upside-down as well so if you're inside (or outside) you don't notice the difference.

 

[phiwum]

Only a tiny number sink without a breach to the hull.

Surely, the failure of the bow visor is pretty similar to a breach of the hull?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[phiwum]

I am sure it is but the fact remains it is easier to float on your back than on your stomach. This is to do with centre of buoyancy and little to do with whether you have a snorkel or not. The snorkel simply enables you to examine what is going on underwater and hence you need to be facing down.

I wonder if corpses tend to float face up or face down or neither.

Let's make an experiment. I got a shovel. And a gun, if freshness matters, but that might constitute a hull breach.

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[phiwum]

We were not talking about artificial aids such as scuba tanks, flippers and snorkels, we were talking about the human body in its own right, hence the qualifier 'ceteris paribus'. So yeah, sure you can even bring in the topic of airbeds or specialist synchronised Olympic swimmers, if you like, but it doesn't cancel out the point being made.

Weird, then, that floating face down is a survival technique.

https://www.sportsrec.com/survival-float-6582.html

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[GlennB]

We were not talking about artificial aids such as scuba tanks, flippers and snorkels, we were talking about the human body in its own right, hence the qualifier 'ceteris paribus'. So yeah, sure you can even bring in the topic of airbeds or specialist synchronised Olympic swimmers, if you like, but it doesn't cancel out the point being made.

In the case in question the snorkel is not an aid to buoyancy, merely an aid to conducting a casual experiment. However, phiwum has just posted another refutation of your claim that requires no breathing aid.

 

[whoanellie]

That used to be the case, but boatbuilders soon realized, and now they build all boats upside-down in the first place - they just put everything inside the boat upside-down as well so if you're inside (or outside) you don't notice the difference.

Certain colorful expressions I learned as a civilian employee of the Coast Guard in the late 1970s suggest there might be gender- sex-based differences in the most stable floating attitude of the adult human body, at least when unconscious or dead.