Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

[TurkeysGhost]

An explanation of what? The rape they didn't know about until three months later? You seem to be confused about the timeline here, even though I just laid it out.

Anyhow, in the June 22nd meeting, some members of the public did ask probing questions about the possibility of sexual predators in school bathrooms. And were told by the Superintendent that such predators absolutely do not exist, and that no such incident had ever happened in their schools.

What other precognitive probing questions should they have asked? "In your previous statement, were you lying?" I'm sure that would have elicited an immediate confession.

Yes, asking a follow-up question about the rape and the arrest for such would be a good question. Never happened though, probably because the guy asking got arrested for getting rowdy and the rest of the crowd was too frothy mouthed about CRT to let the meeting continue.

Considering your conspiratorial view of the school board, I trust you'll understand why I don't trust your given timeline very much.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yeah, probably would have been nice to get some clarification on this, but a bunch of shrieking reactionaries mad about made up problems brought the public meeting to a grinding halt. That's kinda my point.

Maybe they could have got an explanation from the board, satisfying or not, and asked more probing questions, but they were too busy screeching about crypto-Marxism to stay on task.

The superintendent denied knowledge. Asking more questions wouldn't have changed anything. He isn't going to suddenly say, "Oh, that rape of a student on school property!".

No, let me correct that. He DIDN'T deny knowledge of the rape. He denied knowledge of any records of the rape. Let that sink in.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The superintendent denied knowledge. Asking more questions wouldn't have changed anything. He isn't going to suddenly say, "Oh, that rape of a student on school property!".

No, let me correct that. He DIDN'T deny knowledge of the rape. He denied knowledge of any records of the rape. Let that sink in.

You seem to be reading a lot into a very brief verbal exchange.

 

[Myriad]

Yes, asking a follow-up question about the rape and the arrest for such would be a good question. Never happened though, probably because the guy asking got arrested for getting rowdy and the rest of the crowd was too frothy mouthed about CRT to let the meeting continue.

Nice look for progressivism, again. "You opposed CRT and spoke out of turn, so you deserve to have one of your daughters assaulted by a predator we kept in your schools and didn't tell you about."

Asking that follow-up question (or more accurately, making that follow-up statement) is exactly what Smith says he was trying to do. Although, since the School Board has since stated that Smith wasn't signed up to speak at that meeting, it seems unlikely that they would have allowed him to say anything regardless.

In any case, Smith's rowdiness doesn't explain why the Superintendent and School Board chose to deny and keep it secret from the parents that an incident of sexual assault had happened at all. Were they depending on Smith breaking the news for some reason?

(There was another School Board meeting two days ago. Any guesses about what the stupid ignorant racist foul-mouthed lowlife peasant wretched dumb-ass reeking slime-bucket parents were screeching incoherently about this time? According to reporters, it was something about feeling that the safety of their kids didn't seem to be a sufficient priority for the officials. Those scum!)

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Nice look for progressivism, again. "You opposed CRT and spoke out of turn, so you deserve to have one of your daughters assaulted by a predator we kept in your schools and didn't tell you about."

Asking that follow-up question (or more accurately, making that follow-up statement) is exactly what Smith says he was trying to do. Although, since the School Board has since stated that Smith wasn't signed up to speak at that meeting, it seems unlikely that they would have allowed him to say anything regardless.

In any case, Smith's rowdiness doesn't explain why the Superintendent and School Board chose to deny and keep it secret from the parents that an incident of sexual assault had happened at all. Were they depending on Smith breaking the news for some reason?

(There was another School Board meeting two days ago. Any guesses about what the stupid ignorant racist foul-mouthed lowlife peasant wretched dumb-ass reeking slime-bucket parents were screeching incoherently about this time? According to reporters, it was something about feeling that the safety of their kids didn't seem to be a sufficient priority for the officials. Those scum!)

The man was arrested after he got into a shouting match with another member of the public in attendance. The meeting was shortly called off because the crowd was jeering and otherwise acting like a frothy mouthed mob, making an orderly meeting impossible.

I hope the second meeting went better, maybe they would actually get some answers to their questions.

ETA: I'm perfectly willing to believe that a school admin tried to sweep a crime on campus under the rug, or that a school board might be less than candid about how they handled a violent crime. I'm not seeing how having a bunch of shrieking lunatics searching for crypto-commies improves the situation. In fact, the belligerence of those engaged in this baseless moral panic about CRT make it more difficult to resolve real problems.

If I were a crooked school board member looking for a pretext to avoid public meetings, a bunch of raving lunatics screaming about CRT or whatever would be the perfect excuse to cancel a meeting.

 

[Aber]

For those in the UK*,

*Not sure if those outside the UK can access this: if not, it may be possible by downloading the BBC Sounds app.

Geoblocking is being lifted

https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1448672035165675522

 

[d4m10n]

In fact, the belligerence of those engaged in this baseless moral panic about CRT make it more difficult to resolve real problems.

This is the thread about whether it's a baseless moral panic for parents to expect school officials to keep the spermshooter students out of the rooms where the ovulator students take off their knickers.

We've got a separate thread about whether it's a moral panic for parents to lose their **** over CRT.

 

[Myriad]

The man was arrested after he got into a shouting match with another member of the public in attendance. The meeting was shortly called off because the crowd was jeering and otherwise acting like a frothy mouthed mob, making an orderly meeting impossible.

I hope the second meeting went better, maybe they would actually get some answers to their questions.

ETA: I'm perfectly willing to believe that a school admin tried to sweep a crime on campus under the rug, or that a school board might be less than candid about how they handled a violent crime. I'm not seeing how having a bunch of shrieking lunatics searching for crypto-commies improves the situation. In fact, the belligerence of those engaged in this baseless moral panic about CRT make it more difficult to resolve real problems.

If I were a crooked school board member looking for a pretext to avoid public meetings, a bunch of raving lunatics screaming about CRT or whatever would be the perfect excuse to cancel a meeting.

Yes, that's the lesson we should all learn here. Be polite at meetings.

All that minor stuff about lying to the public, press gaslighting, quietly relocating a suspected predator, putting students at risk resulting in an assault, zealously prosecuting an inconvenient victim's father, we should take a look at all that but not until we've all learned to be polite at meetings.

I've never heard of anyone deciding to home-school their kids because someone got disruptive at a School Board meeting, but whatever. Fiddle away while progressivism in the U.S. burns.

(This reminds me eerily of my elementary school days, with teachers obsessed with students lining up in straight lines. An orderly evenly-spaced line of third graders wasn't good enough, it also had to be perfectly straight. It's a fire drill and we have to evacuate, but not yet because your line isn't straight enough. Priorities, people! Lucy, move a little to your left. Tommy, stop rocking back and forth. I always wondered if the teachers would do that during an actual fire as well, and figured they probably would, and Tommy would kill us all.)

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yes, that's the lesson we should all learn here. Be polite at meetings.

All that minor stuff about lying to the public, press gaslighting, quietly relocating a suspected predator, putting students at risk resulting in an assault, zealously prosecuting an inconvenient victim's father, we should take a look at all that but not until we've all learned to be polite at meetings.

I've never heard of anyone deciding to home-school their kids because someone got disruptive at a School Board meeting, but whatever. Fiddle away while progressivism in the U.S. burns.

(This reminds me eerily of my elementary school days, with teachers obsessed with students lining up in straight lines. An orderly evenly-spaced line of third graders wasn't good enough, it also had to be perfectly straight. It's a fire drill and we have to evacuate, but not yet because your line isn't straight enough. Priorities, people! Lucy, move a little to your left. Tommy, stop rocking back and forth. I always wondered if the teachers would do that during an actual fire as well, and figured they probably would, and Tommy would kill us all.)

What exactly did getting convicted of a petty crime accomplish?

hell, the story is only back in the headlines because the guy talked to the press, something that was always an option and didn't require getting manhandled by cops at a public meeting to accomplish.

Getting rowdy at the meeting, followed by anti-CRT weirdos shrieking until it was summarily canceled, did not improve this man's position.

ETA: It's also important to note that this recent update comes courtesy of The Daily Wire, a rag journal of Breitbart tier level of dedication to truth. As of yet, the man's claims are totally unsupported by fact.

 

[Myriad]

What exactly did getting convicted of a petty crime accomplish?

It exposed that Loudoun County Commonwealth’s Attorney Buta Biberaj's touted policy of leniency doesn't apply, for some unfathomable reason, to blue collar cis white males.

hell, the story is only back in the headlines because the guy talked to the press, something that was always an option and didn't require getting manhandled by cops at a public meeting to accomplish.

Talking to the press was never an easy option. First, and most important, doing so would out his daughter as a rape victim not only within but well beyond the community. If he's at all a caring father, he'd want to spare her that if possible.

Second, he thought the matter was being addressed sufficiently because he was never told that the predator was released from custody.

He only attempted to speak out to the community when it became clear that the school officials were lying about the safety record. And after he attempted to speak out to the community, he had charges pending and then a suspended sentence contingent on "good behavior" hanging over him, as well as (he says, this part is unconfirmed) threats to his business from progressives in the clique.

With all of that, he didn't go to the press, until he found out that the predator hadn't been kept in custody after all, and that another girl in the school system had been assaulted as a result. For a man with a conscience, that would change everything, and did.

ETA: It's also important to note that this recent update comes courtesy of The Daily Wire, a rag journal of Breitbart tier level of dedication to truth. As of yet, the man's claims are totally unsupported by fact.

Partly true. However, a lot of additional information has come out since the Daily Wire story, and so far all of it (notwithstanding the School Board's self-serving "the student somehow ended up in a different class by black magic without anyone having any choice or knowledge about it" statement from yesterday) has been consistent with Smith's story.

I didn't think that would happen, actually. I thought the right-wingers would jump on this and make transphobic noise about it, and the progressives would quickly poke all kinds of holes in it, like it would turn out Smith did something much worse than calling a woman who was throwing vile insults at him and his daughter a bitch to prompt his arrest, or the police weren't sure the second assault really happened, or the school officials had actually acknowledged the first assault in some constrained official way and the parents just hadn't been paying attention, or something that would show the story up as slanted propaganda.

Instead, so far, I'm seeing confirmation of the broad outlines of the story, and apologetics and what appears to be deliberately missing the point ("look over there, CRT and bad behavior at meetings!") from you.

And I'd still like an explanation of how "I'm not seeing how moving a student to a different school away from an alleged victim is anything but a prudent action" makes any rational sense at all. Unless, you think she was asking for it?

 

[Elaedith]

Instead, so far, I'm seeing confirmation of the broad outlines of the story, and apologetics and what appears to be deliberately missing the point ("look over there, CRT and bad behavior at meetings!") from you.

And I'd still like an explanation of how "I'm not seeing how moving a student to a different school away from an alleged victim is anything but a prudent action" makes any rational sense at all. Unless, you think she was asking for it?

'All that matters is controlling the narrative'. The narrative is based on ideology, not truth. It makes sense if you look at things that way.

 

[Elaedith]

Geoblocking is being lifted

https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1448672035165675522

Yes, it's available worldwide now. I'm up to episode 5, featuring Dr David Bell discussing gender dysphoria in children and adolescents. He did a brilliant job, in particular explaining the damage done by spurious analogous with sexual orientation.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Sow, definitely.

Can you arrange some canine drugs so I can call you a bitch?

Darling, you can call me a bitch however often you please.

 

[Emily's Cat]

American healthcare sucks, you don't have to convince me of this. Not sure why it's trans people's fault that your insurer would rather let you suffer from a treatable condition. Take it up with those responsible (hint: it's not trans people)

You're right, it's not trans people - it's trans lobbyists and activists. They're the ones who, while simultaneously arguing that trans people are the most oppressed and marginalized people ever, have managed to push through legislation that allows transgender identified females to get hysterectomies as necessary for their affirmation... but don't give a crap about females who have actual goddamned medical conditions that *should* justify a hysterectomy.

It's not the medical industry that is the problem - it's the legislative bodies that are pushing an ideological narrative into health care.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You're right, it's not trans people - it's trans lobbyists and activists. They're the ones who, while simultaneously arguing that trans people are the most oppressed and marginalized people ever, have managed to push through legislation that allows transgender identified females to get hysterectomies as necessary for their affirmation... but don't give a crap about females who have actual goddamned medical conditions that *should* justify a hysterectomy.

It's not the medical industry that is the problem - it's the legislative bodies that are pushing an ideological narrative into health care.

Show me a single citation that trans lobbies are opposed to cis women getting necessary medical care, I'll wait.

Your animus is showing here pretty strongly.

ETA: A zero-sum view of rights is a pretty common way for reactionaries to look at things, but is not actually how the world works. Trans people getting better access to gender affirming healthcare is not an assault on the rights of others to get necessary medical care.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It exposed that Loudoun County Commonwealth’s Attorney Buta Biberaj's touted policy of leniency doesn't apply, for some unfathomable reason, to blue collar cis white males.




Talking to the press was never an easy option. First, and most important, doing so would out his daughter as a rape victim not only within but well beyond the community. If he's at all a caring father, he'd want to spare her that if possible.

Second, he thought the matter was being addressed sufficiently because he was never told that the predator was released from custody.

He only attempted to speak out to the community when it became clear that the school officials were lying about the safety record. And after he attempted to speak out to the community, he had charges pending and then a suspended sentence contingent on "good behavior" hanging over him, as well as (he says, this part is unconfirmed) threats to his business from progressives in the clique.

With all of that, he didn't go to the press, until he found out that the predator hadn't been kept in custody after all, and that another girl in the school system had been assaulted as a result. For a man with a conscience, that would change everything, and did.




Partly true. However, a lot of additional information has come out since the Daily Wire story, and so far all of it (notwithstanding the School Board's self-serving "the student somehow ended up in a different class by black magic without anyone having any choice or knowledge about it" statement from yesterday) has been consistent with Smith's story.

I didn't think that would happen, actually. I thought the right-wingers would jump on this and make transphobic noise about it, and the progressives would quickly poke all kinds of holes in it, like it would turn out Smith did something much worse than calling a woman who was throwing vile insults at him and his daughter a bitch to prompt his arrest, or the police weren't sure the second assault really happened, or the school officials had actually acknowledged the first assault in some constrained official way and the parents just hadn't been paying attention, or something that would show the story up as slanted propaganda.

Instead, so far, I'm seeing confirmation of the broad outlines of the story, and apologetics and what appears to be deliberately missing the point ("look over there, CRT and bad behavior at meetings!") from you.

And I'd still like an explanation of how "I'm not seeing how moving a student to a different school away from an alleged victim is anything but a prudent action" makes any rational sense at all. Unless, you think she was asking for it?

I'm still trying to figure out what this one guy's gripe (rooted in pretty serious concerns about how the school handled a violent crime) has anything to do with the topic of this thread.

It honestly sounds like mostly a coincidence that he was there and had his outburst during a meeting that was otherwise dominated by a CRT/transphobia freakout. Seems the large audience of frothy mouthed rubes were totally unaware of his problem when they decided to descend on the school board to hoot and holler. If that's the case, his concerns aren't really on topic for this thread. Messy reporting conflated his arrest for trying to accost someone as related to the broader CRT freakout, which may not be true.

What does this guys gripe exactly have to do with the topic?

 

[d4m10n]

What does this guys gripe exactly have to do with the topic?

Something to do with when it's okay to challenge someone for being in the ladies room, perhaps.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Something to do with when it's okay to challenge someone for being in the ladies room, perhaps.

Considering the story alleges the same person is accused of committing the very same kind of crime not within a girl's bathroom shortly after the first incident, it seems that magical barriers outside bathrooms don't seem to deter people who want to commit sex crime.

The kind of person that will push someone into an empty classroom and commit a forcible rape while already under investigation for a sex crime is not interested in what sign is hanging outside a bathroom.

 

[d4m10n]

Considering the story alleges the same person is accused of committing the very same kind of crime not within a girl's bathroom shortly after the first incident, it seems that magical barriers outside bathrooms don't seem to deter people who want to commit sex crime.

There is nothing remotely magical about females confronting a male for trangressing into a designated space; it's the sort of thing that surely would happen if females were assured that they've been given a space to be safe from males.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be arguing that such spaces ought not exist.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

There is nothing remotely magical about females confronting a male for trangressing into a designated space; it's the sort of thing that surely would happen if females were assured that they've been given a space to be safe from males.

What's that have to do with this case of a someone accused of multiple forcible rape?

Do you think these crimes would not have occurred with a different bathroom policy? Seems unlikely, considering the second one didn't involve a bathroom at all.

This person, if reports are true, sounds exceptionally dangerous. Not sure what that has to do with the topic of the thread though, other than just another scare story to bolster the already well debunked myth of the danger of trans people in bathrooms.