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Texas bans abortion.

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I can not give comprehensive and unambiguous definitions of "human being", "person" etc (everybody's understanding is different).

You don't have to give everyone's understanding. I would like to know what your definition of human being is.

Right now, it appears you are using the equivocation fallacy using the words human and human being to confuse the issue.
 
Right now, it appears you are using the equivocation fallacy using the words human and human being to confuse the issue.
Other than proving that you have not read a single one of my posts, this sort of projection is exactly why I refuse to play your game.

Other than the fact that one expression can be used as a noun or adjective and the other is a noun only, there is nothing magical about either expression and they both imply that the subject is a living thing that has essential characteristics of a human/human being.
 
Other than proving that you have not read a single one of my posts, this sort of projection is exactly why I refuse to play your game.

Other than the fact that one expression can be used as a noun or adjective and the other is a noun only, there is nothing magical about either expression and they both imply that the subject is a living thing that has essential characteristics of a human/human being.

IOW, you don't want to defend the notion that a zygote or embryo are sentient or sapient, individual beings.
 
Talk about crazy logic: "You don't care about children, because you won't pay to raise them. We care a lot more, because we advocate killing the bastards-to-be before they are born."

The 'logic' is "I care about children intensely when they are unborn and especially when they are unviable, but the moment they are out of the womb they should be the total responsibility of the woman who did not want it. I'm sure they'll have a good life."
 
I don't know at what point in the life cycle sentience develops and the rest of you post is too silly for words.

We know when it doesn't exist as in there is no central nervous system or brain developed enough to feel or think anything. This is an excellent article discussing the topic of when to confer "personhood" on the unborn. To read the rest of the article, go to the link at the bottom.

No sustainable or complex nervous system is in place until approximately six months of gestation.
The fact that it is clear that a human brain isn't viable until week 23, and only then with the aid of modern medical support, seems to have no impact on the debate. This is where neuro "logic" loses out. Moral arguments get mixed in with biology, and the result is a stew of passions, beliefs, and stubborn, illogical opinion.
However, in judging a fetus "one of us," and granting it the moral and legal rights of a human being, I put the age much later, at twenty-three weeks, when life is sustainable and that fetus could, with a little help from a neonatal unit, survive and develop into a thinking human being with a normal brain. This is the same age at which the Supreme Court has ruled that the fetus becomes protected from abortion.

As a father, I have a perceptual reaction to the Carnegie developmental stages of a fetus: the image of Stage 23, when the fetus is approximately eight weeks old, suggests a small human being. Until that stage, it is difficult to tell the difference between a pig embryo and a human embryo. But then-bingo-up pops the beginning shape of the human head, and it looks unmistakably like one of us. Again, this is around eight weeks, more than two thirds into the first trimester. I am reacting to a sentiment that wells up in me, a perceptual moment that is stark, defining, and real. And yet, at the level of neuroscientific knowledge, it could easily be argued that my view is nonsensical. The brain at Carnegie Stage 23, which has slowly been developing from roughly the fifteenth day, is hardly a brain that could sustain any serious mental life. If a grown adult had suffered massive brain damage, reducing the brain to this level of development, the patient would be considered brain dead and a candidate for organ donation. Society has defined the point at which an inadequately functioning brain no longer deserves moral status. If we look at the requirements for brain death, and examine how they compare with the developmental sequence, we see that the brain of a third-trimester baby, or perhaps even a second-trimester baby, could be so analyzed. So why would I draw a line at Carnegie Stage 23 when the neuroscientific knowledge makes it clear that the brain at this stage is not ready for prime-time life?

I am trying to make a neuroethical argument here, and I cannot avoid a "gut reaction." Of course, it is my gut reaction, and others may not have it at all. In recognizing it within me, however, I am able to appreciate how difficult these decisions are for many people. Even though I can't imagine, and do not have, a gut reaction to seeing a fourteen-day-old blastocyst, an entity the size of the dot of an i on this page, that dot may serve as a stimulus to the belief system of those who hold that all fertilized eggs are worthy of our respect. Still, I would argue that assigning equivalent moral status to a fourteen-day-old ball of cells and to a premature baby is conceptually forced. Holding them to be the same is a sheer act of personal belief.
The Continuity and Potentiality Arguments

Obviously there is a point of view that life begins at conception. The continuity argument is that a fertilized egg will go on to become a person and therefore deserves the rights of an individual, because it is unquestionably where a particular individual's life begins. If one is not willing to parse the subsequent events of development, then this becomes one of those arguments you can't argue with. Either you believe it or you don't. While those who argue this point try to suggest that anyone who values the sanctity of human life must see things this way, the fact is that this just isn't so. This view comes, to a large extent, from the Catholic Church, the American religious right, and even many atheists and agnostics. On the other side, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, many Christians, and other atheists and agnostics do not believe it. Certain Jews and Muslims believe that the embryo deserves to be assigned the moral status of a "human" after forty days of development. Many Catholics believe the same, and many have written to me expressing those views based on their own reading of church history.
When we examine the issue of brain death, that is when life ends, it also begins to become clear that something else is at work here: our own brain's need to form beliefs. If we examine how a common set of accepted rational, scientific facts can lead to different moral judgments, we see the need to consider what influences these varying conclusions, and we can begin to extricate certain neuroethical issues from the arbitrary contexts in which they may initially have been considered.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/books/chapters/the-ethical-brain.html
 
IOW, you don't want to defend the notion that a zygote or embryo are sentient or sapient, individual beings.

Of course not. Neither is my little finger. Has living cells, though.

Now, if the argument is that probabilities are deterministic, that argument has a few flaws. The p(baby outcome) of a zygote is < 1, yet it is > 0.5. Good enough to declare the baby a done deal, vested in rights as a born individual? Yes? Consider: The p(support for wars of aggression) of a White American is also > 0.5. May I now arrest White Americans for future war crimes and find them guilty?

Not how it works, is it?
 
Consider: The p(support for wars of aggression) of a White American is also > 0.5. May I now arrest White Americans for future war crimes and find them guilty?
Putting aside the fact that p(support for wars of aggression) is not necessarily the same thing as p(support for war crimes) you are implying that all White Americans are (or will be) actively fighting in a war of aggression when the majority will more likely be firmly entrenched in their arm chair while others are doing the deed. IOW you are criminalizing free speech.
 
Putting aside the fact that p(support for wars of aggression) is not necessarily the same thing as p(support for war crimes) you are implying that all White Americans are (or will be) actively fighting in a war of aggression when the majority will more likely be firmly entrenched in their arm chair while others are doing the deed. IOW you are criminalizing free speech.

But they could potentially take up arms, so we should treat them as if they are......
 
In order to parody the Texas law, Pennsylvania State Senator Chris Rabb released a memo announcing his intent to propose a bill that would mandate vasectomies for men after they turn 40 or have three children. Bear in mind, this is just a memo. There's no actual bill, and he hasn't even really proposed it.

That didn't stop Newt Gingrich from throwing a fit about it on Twitter.

More far left insanity: A Democrat State Senator from Pennsylvania has introduced a new bill seeking to punish "cisgender men" with forced sterilization if they have more than three children or once they turn 40 years old.


Again, he didn't introduce a new bill. It's just a memo intended to highlight the double standard in reproductive rights legislation.
 
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Well, with the number of loons currently in the party, he is afraid people might forget his existence. So he has to let out a fart now and then.
 
This semantic word play is just...

... all of your doing.

Try this. Just don't care what exact terms anyone uses if their meaning is clear. Works wonders.

Stop trying to **** the dictionary into winning your arguments for you.

I've said a dozen times I don't care what you call the little clump of cells, it still doesn't outrank a woman's right to get rid of it if she wants.
 
I don't know at what point in the life cycle sentience develops and the rest of you post is too silly for words.

About 30 weeks. 22 weeks if you're being very, very generous. 18 weeks if you decide that the first sign of neuron activity counts for some reason.
 
Not to fuel but hopefully undercut the semantic arguments, but both sentience and sapience are relevant here. Sapience is probably the word that describes the features that make human life more valuable than other species (and, no, I would not say all other species to preclude that potential derail).
 
I said it pages ago and the the pro-lifers ignored it.

If another adult human (so "is it human, alive, sentient, a human being, has human rights, etc, etc, so forth and so on" are not even factor) needs your kidney you aren't morally obligated to give it to them. "I'm human, ergo I am entitled to your biological support" isn't true so why are we discussing it?

So "Is it human?" and every other semantic variations thereof is a red herring.
 
Not to fuel but hopefully undercut the semantic arguments, but both sentience and sapience are relevant here. Sapience is probably the word that describes the features that make human life more valuable than other species (and, no, I would not say all other species to preclude that potential derail).

I agree, but people always look at me funny when I advocate the Spartan method.

I doubt arguments regarding sapience will help.
 
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