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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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The officials have already allowed the Fokus survivors group to have the bow visor - which was locked up and classed as 'classified' - analysed by their own independent experts. You still are not comprehending that things have changed. The JAIC report is yesterday's papers.


No. They've allowed access because 1) if they had not, it would have made it appear that they had something to hide, and 2) they're already totally certain of what the visor shows - and doesn't show - wrt the disaster.
 
No. They've allowed access because 1) if they had not, it would have made it appear that they had something to hide, and 2) they're already totally certain of what the visor shows - and doesn't show - wrt the disaster.

The Swedish authorities took heir own scan of the bow visor six months after Prof Anders Ulfvarson et al. So if Westermann found significant deformations not concommitent 'banging on the bulbous bow area', then the Swedes will have obtained the exact same results.

- Yesterday, [28.9.2021] the Swedish Accident Investigation Board carried out its own photogrammetric 3D scan of the bow visor on Muskö, six months after we did ours. They will have the same pictures we have. They will not be able to explain the damage in any other way than what we did and which was confirmed yesterday by Professor Anders Ulfvarson, Professor Ida Westermann and former accident investigator Roland Carlsson, says Lars Ångström.
https://www.fokus.se/2021/09/starkta-krav-pa-ny-utredning-bogvisiret-sprangdes-bort/
 
I don't see any lights. I see the reflection of the dive light. Point to where you think the light is.

And no, "beacon" does not invariably mean optical beacon.

The direct translation here is from Estonian is 'light houses' = beacons.

29.09.09.2021.

Hydrographer Peeter Ude, who came to look for objects around the wreck of Estonia, has not yet found the sea containers he thought were there. However, under his control, the underwater robot collided with three strange metal structures, at the end of which, according to the monitor's eye, there appeared a small wire cover resembling a lighthouse tower.

They are located about 100 meters north of the wreck. It is clear that these are objects that have been obtained by a human hand - just the kind that the leader of the expedition Margus Kurm promised to look for and then explore. In order to understand whether any of them may be related to the death of Estonia.

According to the hydrographer Peeter Ude sent to the expedition ship by his relatives, these are underwater lighthouses, which were probably transported there when Estonia was wanted to be covered with concrete based on the argument of protecting the grave.

This is what he pictured.
 

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The direct translation here is from Estonian is 'light houses' = beacons

This is what he pictured.

You have the brains to realise that the direct translation is a poor one and that the object is not lit but merely reflecting the light being shone on it.
 
The direct translation here is from Estonian is 'light houses' = beacons.

And you don't consider that this may be meant figuratively, or is an inaccurate translation? The object pictured clearly has no light on it.

This is what he pictured.

Which not a light-emitting object, but a light-reflecting object. Also, as LondonJohn pointed out, it's ostensibly a part of the ship as evidenced by the accumulation of undersea crud.
 
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RS Sentinel on its way home to the Netherlands

RS Sentinel has just passed Gotland Island so will be travelling for another day or two before disembarking.

Kurm says they've achieved most of the things they set out to do.

Expedition leader Margus Kurm said: "The success of every project can be assessed in the light of the set objectives. Looking at the goals we set before the expedition, they were generally met. The weather and visibility near the wreck were not perfect; however, we managed to do almost everything we needed to do."

"What slightly even exceeded our expectations was the survey of the wreck's car deck. Despite very poor visibility, our underwater robot entered the car deck at a depth of some 60 meters and registered that two of the doors leading to lower decks are closed and undamaged," Kurm continued, adding that material collected will be sent to experts for analysis.

One of the investigations finds has been mystery transmitter beacons, which the team say have been installed on the sea-bed and close to the wreck, and were likely the source of interference in equipment during an official dive in summer, but who placed them there, why and when remains unclear.

<snip>

Of successes, Kurm said underwater photographs of almost the entire wreck were obtained, which will enable both a full 3D model and shed more light on damage caused to the hull – one of the issues which has prompted both the Kurm-led dive and an official, joint Estonian-Swedish investigation, which began in summer and will continue next year.

<snip>

A little over 40 people, including six media representatives, took place in the project.

SA Mare Liberum was founded in July this year.
ERR
 
And you don't consider that this may be meant figuratively, or is an inaccurate translation? The object pictured clearly has no light on it.



Which not a light-emitting object, but a light-reflecting object. Also, as LondonJohn pointed out, it's ostensibly a part of the ship as evidenced by the accumulation of undersea crud.

No, it is about 100 metres away to the north of the wreck. It seems to have its own platform. There are reportedly three of these observed by RS Sentinel. They are described as 'transmitter beacons'. Perhaps they have sensors that triggers a light? Maybe some earlier divers left them behind.

Here are some early images of what was found. Can anybody identify them for sure and their usage? Apparently they were also blocking signals. Arikas in July also reported that problem.
 

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that is part of the ship.

No, they are 100 metres north of it.

Hydrographer Peeter Ude, who came to look for objects around the wreck of Estonia, has not yet found the sea containers he thought were there. However, under his control, the underwater robot collided with three strange metal structures, at the end of which, according to the monitor's eye, there appeared a small wire cover resembling a lighthouse tower.

They are located about 100 meters north of the wreck.

The wreck lies 59° 23' N 21° 42' E ~ 22 nautical miles in bearing ~ 157° from Utö island (Finland) in the Baltic Sea

The bow lying facing SE aspect, stern NW. AIUI
 

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They are described as 'transmitter beacons'.

And is that a positive identification, or is it someone's guess?

Perhaps they have sensors that triggers a light?

Perhaps they have motion sensors that dispense candy. Don't just speculate what you think it might do.

Maybe some earlier divers left them behind.

Maybe it's part of the ship's debris field. It doesn't have to be still attached to the ship to have been part of the ship.

Apparently they were also blocking signals.

What is the evidence these are the objects that were allegedly blocking signals? What experiment was done to verify that effect?
 
Seabed sonar beacons are a thing, they are used to help with dynamic positioning of surface vessels or communication for an ROV or dive team
None that I have seen look like that though.
It looks like a random piece that has come off the ship.
 
"...at the end of which, according to the monitor's eye, there appeared a small wire cover resembling a lighthouse tower."

Do you see how "resembl[es] a lighthouse tower" isn't the same thing as "is a beacon?"

After seeing the pictures of the object from farther away, I agree the cage on the top is almost certainly to protect the smaller object inside it. That's a common design riff for seabed-mounted equipment. I'm skeptical that they are lights, however, as there would be little if any purpose to having something like that 100 meters away from what you're putatively interested in.

I'm not opposed to the idea it was something left over from a previous expedition. But it's evidently been down there long enough that if it's electrically powered then its batteries died long ago.
 
You are quite wrong there. There have always been question marks since day one of the JAIC's report. Kurm and Meister were actually insider appointed Heads of the investigation board. The Estonian members of the JAIC were actually maritime experts within the industry, apart from Krum is was Chief Prosecutor. They saw which way the wind blew from day one, when the Swedes decided everything was to be literally covered up, no doubt thanks to Bill Clinton and his CIA operatives making it classified, together with John Major and MI6.

Like I said, it has attracted more loonies.

Seriously, Bill Clinton? That's insane.

Have you never stopped to ask yourself why Germany declined to sign off the treaty, yet suddenly the UK is a Baltic State?

What did the Germans say when asked?
The UK, being an island nation, tends to go along to get along in matters that are not all that important. A lot of trade goes both ways through the Baltic, and the UK knows it's better to have as many friends as possible for a variety of smart economic reasons.

The ship took a lot of lives, Sweden at the very least was trying to keep scavengers from stripping the wreck. And by then, thanks to Titanic, there was a movement to set aside wrecks as grave sites to protect them.
 
And is that a positive identification, or is it someone's guess?



Perhaps they have motion sensors that dispense candy. Don't just speculate what you think it might do.



Maybe it's part of the ship's debris field. It doesn't have to be still attached to the ship to have been part of the ship.



What is the evidence these are the objects that were allegedly blocking signals? What experiment was done to verify that effect?

The expert engineer on board the RS Sentinel.

A scientist says he believes he has found the source of mysterious interference experienced in sonar and other devices during an investigation into the wreck of the MS Estonia, which sank in 1994 with the loss of 852 lives. The scientist, a hydrographer called Peeter Ude, says the source is transmitter beacons installed on the sea-bed and close to the wreck, but who placed them there, why and when remains unclear, he says.

Ude, who is involved both in a private sector expedition aimed at surveying the wreck of the MS Estonia and was also involved in the official investigation whose preliminary dives took place in July, says the devices could have been the source of disturbance experienced in a wreck survey in the summer work.
He said: "The very idea of these devices is to send out alternating signals that makes it possible to triangulate the Autonomous Underwater Vehicles' (AUV) position," referring to remote dive robots used heavily in modern-day investigations of this nature.

"They have been left in place to fix the position of the hull and avoid potential mistakes installing new ones," Ude, who took part in the official Estonian Safety Investigation Bureau's expedition this summer, said.
"Looking at the direction of the noise, there is a 90 percent chance the beacons were operational when we were trying to get our images," he continued, adding that devices of this kind can be remotely activated and deactivated.

One of the most mysterious aspects of the putative sea-floor devices is where their power source is drawn from.

"I cannot tell you what triggered them and caused them to interfere with our work the last time," he went on, though said that the beacons, which would likely be expensive, would overall make surveying easier.

Ude said an autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV) he was controlling had happened upon three peculiar metal constructions topped by what appear to be lighthouse-like columns, or in other words beacons, lying about 100 meters due north of the wreck.
ERR



What is hydrography?

"Hydrography is the science that measures and describes the physical features of the navigable portion of the Earth's surface and adjoining coastal areas. Hydrographic surveyors study these bodies of water to see what the "floor" looks like. ... That data is used to update nautical charts and develop hydrographic models."
 
Seabed sonar beacons are a thing, they are used to help with dynamic positioning of surface vessels or communication for an ROV or dive team
None that I have seen look like that though.
It looks like a random piece that has come off the ship.

When you find something close to a shipwreck, your first hypothesis should be that it's something that came off the wreck.

I thumbed through some catalogs in our library, and there are definitely some cylindrical sonar transducers that could be similar to the cylindrical object inside the cage at the top of the larger cylinder. I don't have a good sense of scale from these photos. No exact matches, though, regardless of scale. I wish I could see the rest of the structure, the alleged skid that it's mounted on. If its a seabed equipment skid, those tend to be built according to only a few common patterns.
 
No, it is about 100 metres away to the north of the wreck. It seems to have its own platform. There are reportedly three of these observed by RS Sentinel. They are described as 'transmitter beacons'. Perhaps they have sensors that triggers a light? Maybe some earlier divers left them behind.

Here are some early images of what was found. Can anybody identify them for sure and their usage? Apparently they were also blocking signals. Arikas in July also reported that problem.

Maybe if they'd had more time they could have better pictures.

If they're not from the Estonia they could be old positioning beacons from the original accident investigation. Unless they're hard-wired they're not communicating with anyone, and they've been down there a long time. If they are hard-wired just follow the cable back to the source, or cut the cable and find out whose navy comes out to fix it.

Why don't the "Experts" on the ship doing to survey know what they are?
 
Now I rather want to know what "interference experienced in sonar and other devices" these three "beacons" are thought to explain.
 
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