Texas bans abortion.

[Dr. Keith]

Not sure what you mean here.

If one really wants to reduce the number of abortions then one should focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies by providing contraceptives to women who do not want to be pregnant. In fact, they should be free and easy to obtain. That would have the best chance of reducing the number of abortions.

PP puts a lot of effort into such efforts. Conservatives, especially religious conservatives, rarely put any real effort into effective prevention programs.

Do I need to expand further?

 

[Dr. Keith]

technically any cell has life. If you can't see the different between a sperm cell and a fertilized egg that is developing into a human being, I don't know.

I can. One is swimming with a purpose while the other is nearly motionless. Is that what you mean?

 

[cosmicaug]

What I was talking about was when to decide a risk to the mother was so great that an abortion should be allowed when otherwise it would not be by law. If that case think you rely on medical experts.

So the doctor both elucidates the risk and decides (for someone else) whether that level of risk is acceptable?

Awesome!

 

[acbytesla]

If one really wants to reduce the number of abortions then one should focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies by providing contraceptives to women who do not want to be pregnant. In fact, they should be free and easy to obtain. That would have the best chance of reducing the number of abortions.

PP puts a lot of effort into such efforts. Conservatives, especially religious conservatives, rarely put any real effort into effective prevention programs.

Do I need to expand further?

They do the exact opposite. Sex is a sin. Contraception is against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Evangelicals push against sex education and promote "abstinence only." You use to not be able to buy condoms from a regular aisle of a pharmacy. You had to ask for them. This was and is an obstacle for teenagers in small towns.

 

[Warbler]

Why not?

Why not what?

 

[Warbler]

If one really wants to reduce the number of abortions then one should focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies by providing contraceptives to women who do not want to be pregnant. In fact, they should be free and easy to obtain. That would have the best chance of reducing the number of abortions.

PP puts a lot of effort into such efforts. Conservatives, especially religious conservatives, rarely put any real effort into effective prevention programs.

Do I need to expand further?

I have no objection on providing contraceptives. But also think honest and legit scientific information should be provided on the chance of contraceptives failing. They don't provide 100% protection.

 

[Warbler]

I can. One is swimming with a purpose while the other is nearly motionless. Is that what you mean?

*sigh*

 

[Warbler]

So the doctor both elucidates the risk and decides (for someone else) whether that level of risk is acceptable?

Awesome!

If we had a law banning abortion under normal circumstances, but wanted to provide a exception for when the risk to the life of the mother was too great, I don't know who but medical experts you would go to, to figure out when the risk to the mother was too great.

 

[smartcooky]

BOLLOCKS AGAIN.

This is a simple question and you're still using the term "personal accountability" as a cudgel without saying what that means. Having an honest discussion with you is impossible because you refuse to say in definitive words what you mean.

That's the idea, its all part of the game!

If you never actually say what you mean, you can never be pinned down to a position on any given topic. I have an ex like that (the narcissist I have spoken about before). You could never, ever get her to actually say what she wanted - it was always a stupid game in which I would have to suggest what she wants, and the only answers you ever got (if you even got an answer) were "no" and "maybe"

 

[Warp12]

If we had a law banning abortion under normal circumstances, but wanted to provide a exception for when the risk to the life of the mother was too great, I don't know who but medical experts you would go to, to figure out when the risk to the mother was too great.

Warbler, I don't know if you have answered this directly before, but:

Do you want to outlaw abortion? I thought you were pretty clear that you think the TX law is excessive. Correct?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I don't know. But society and law must make some decision(s) regarding whether or not the fetus has rights. I could ask others the same question how is it not just your opinion that the fetus as no rights and why should other people run their lives based on your opinion?

Where in the world do you think I've ever asked anyone to accept my opinion about their family planning? I find that thought absurd. My opinion should only matter in areas that actually affect me. I have absolutely no desire to manage anyone else's life especially in regards to family planning.

 

[cosmicaug]

a sperm isn't developing into a human, nor is an unfertilized egg. It when the sperm and egg combine that a new and separate life begins.

Of course it is. This meeting of the gametes is part of that process.

 

[cosmicaug]

really? saying new life begins at conception(note I didn't say was human yet or had rights yet) is arbitrary? Okay.

I imagine some organism with a more prominent haploid stage (and the ploidy chauvinism to go along with it) pondering: "Really? Saying new life begins at meiosis is arbitrary?".

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

a sperm isn't developing into a human, nor is an unfertilized egg.

Yes they are. They both doing exactly what it takes to complete the human life cycle.

It when the sperm and egg combine that a new and separate life begins.

But it's not new and it's not separate. Both the sperm and egg that preceded it are alive. And the sperm that proceeded was far more separate and independent than the blastocyst/embryo is.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Thank God humans aren't marsupials.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Why not what?

Your rationale for forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy is that a fertilized egg is special and at some point has more rights than the mother. I’m wondering what rights that fertilized egg has in the freezer of a fertility clinic when the donors who fertilized it no longer need it and ask the clinic to throw it out.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I have no objection on providing contraceptives. But also think honest and legit scientific information should be provided on the chance of contraceptives failing. They don't provide 100% protection.

The point is that if you think abortion is a bad thing you should be out on the street corner handing out contraceptives. You should be pushing for legislation that provides women with free and easy access to contraceptives. But you don’t, none of you do.

 

[Dr. Keith]

If we had a law banning abortion under normal circumstances, but wanted to provide a exception for when the risk to the life of the mother was too great, I don't know who but medical experts you would go to, to figure out when the risk to the mother was too great.

I do. And you do, too.

The same person who decides for every other medical risk: the patient.

 

[Warbler]

Warbler, I don't know if you have answered this directly before, but:

Do you want to outlaw abortion? I thought you were pretty clear that you think the TX law is excessive. Correct?

Yes, the Texas law is excessive. As for outlawing abortion, I am not crazy about it, but I think maybe some should (not in cases of rape, incest, where the life of the mother is in danger), maybe not right at conception or in the weeks or so, but maybe later in development when the fetus is more than "a clump of cells". I just think the fetus is something of value, something that may have rights separate from that of the women.

 

[Warbler]

Of course it is. This meeting of the gametes is part of that process.

gametes?