The supernatural

[Pixel42]

its true. I'm sorry. The Qur'an also tells the facts. Be fair.

I'm being as fair to your arguments as is possible without abandoning logic and reason. Unfortunately they are neither logical nor reasonable.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Thus quoth the Prophet Whatsitsname (peace be unto it) that Google the Merciful sent forth in response to my supplication:

"Unlike the Biblical narrative, the Quranic narrative does not explicitly state whether the Flood was a global event that drowned all creatures on earth or a local event that only drowned the people to whom Noah was sent (although, as we shall see, the straightforward reading of the Quranic verses seems to suggest the latter). Also unlike the Biblical narrative, the Quranic narrative does not give any genealogical details that would place the Flood at some precise date. Since the Quranic narrative leaves open the possibility that the Flood was local, and since it does not specify a date for the Flood, it does not conflict with modern geology, nor does it conflict with modern biology, nor does it conflict with the radiometric dating of rocks on the surface of the earth and moon.

(...)

The people of the Prophet Noah (upon him be peace) had fallen into idolatry and his mission was to warn them to stop worshiping idols and to worship God alone, lest a punishment from God descend on them.

These people disbelieved in him, mocked him, and disobeyed him. As a result of their rejection of the messenger that God sent them, God unleashed a local flood that encompassed the area that they inhabited. The Flood was divine punishment for their disbelief."​

Link: https://www.basiraeducation.org/blog/was-noahs-flood-global-or-local


Of course, this is one individual's --- or, I don't know, maybe one sect's --- interpretation, and, as it says here itself, many others hold a different view. Both interpretations make sense, linguistically speaking, going by the wording of the Quran.


Incidentally, in the comments, someone asks the obvious question, that I'd myself asked: Why the Ark, then, if this were a local affair? The response is this very wise observation, pointing out why the question itself is absurd and unrighteous: "That's a good question, though if we follow this route there are many other questions we could ask regarding the decisions of Allah (swa)."

Hello, wise and well-thought-out master. I enjoyed your comprehensive and beautiful article. Wishing you good health and eternal success.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I stared at one point for a long time. I put a cover on that spot. I saw other places lit up. It was getting brighter every moment.
I removed the cover of my dazzling point. I saw all the spots are clear. One less and one more. This is how I look now. I hope to see you all soon. And this wish is not far away. it's close. Where you do not know, I will see you. I think of the seventh singularity and the creation of the eighth world. Which is approaching at the speed of light or more. A world with superior technology and evolved human beings and eternal life. Do not want to travel to this beautiful world? This trip is a must. And in fact it will happen. wait. Hope to meet. Good bye

 

[Scorpion]

Proof the Quran is copied from the bible:. Quran says at verse 29.14 Noah lived to 950 and the bible says Noah lived to 950 at Genesis 9.29. But this is believed to be a miss translation of the numbers in the early bible. But the Quran exactly copies this biblical translation error.

 

[JoeMorgue]

People don't live to be 950. Both books are nonsense.

 

[Scorpion]

People don't live to be 950. Both books are nonsense.

The point is that it is believed the bible was miss translated by an early scribe, who got the numbers wrong, probably when the early bible was translated into Greek. The original text probably had a normal age span for Noah.

The fact the Quran exactly copies this numbering error shows it was copied from an early flawed translation of the bible.

 

[Scorpion]

I stared at one point for a long time. I put a cover on that spot. I saw other places lit up. It was getting brighter every moment.
I removed the cover of my dazzling point. I saw all the spots are clear. One less and one more. This is how I look now. I hope to see you all soon. And this wish is not far away. it's close. Where you do not know, I will see you. I think of the seventh singularity and the creation of the eighth world. Which is approaching at the speed of light or more. A world with superior technology and evolved human beings and eternal life. Do not want to travel to this beautiful world? This trip is a must. And in fact it will happen. wait. Hope to meet. Good bye

Don't say goodbye. Tell us more. Because I for one need more information to understand what you are talking about.

 

[turingtest]

I stared at one point for a long time. I put a cover on that spot. I saw other places lit up. It was getting brighter every moment.
I removed the cover of my dazzling point. I saw all the spots are clear. One less and one more. This is how I look now. I hope to see you all soon. And this wish is not far away. it's close. Where you do not know, I will see you. I think of the seventh singularity and the creation of the eighth world. Which is approaching at the speed of light or more. A world with superior technology and evolved human beings and eternal life. Do not want to travel to this beautiful world? This trip is a must. And in fact it will happen. wait. Hope to meet. Good bye

Is this a flounce? It sounds like a flounce. A prettified flounce, classier than most, but a flounce nonetheless.

You know, if a believer came here with a scripture that read something like "god created the conditions that made life possible; then he saw man, and said, 'yeah, ok, I guess I can live with that,'" I wouldn't bother arguing with it or them- the god is an unnecessary add-on, but at least it's not a pretense to anything more than pure faith. But, no, you don't get to claim that your particular faith supports, even anticipates, a theory that, in fact, it contradicts in that theory's operative essential without some pushback on the obvious logical inconsistency.

 

[Chanakya]

Hello. Noah's prophetic area was vast. And Aba has risen so high that it covers the peaks of the mountains of the region. After 40 days and nights, water eruption and rain will stop. And after 7 days, the ship lands on the Ararat mountain range. This issue has been mentioned in authentic books except the Quran. And introduced. You do not accept history documents either ?!

Hello, heydarian.

I'm going to make more than one point, and given the translation software and all, and in order not to end up creating unnecessary confusion, I'm going to enumerate them here for your convenience:

1. When I asked, in that post of mine that you quoted, in brief and without spelling it out, "if it was just a local flood, why would an Ark be needed at all?", what I'd meant was:
   
   In the biblical (and Quranic) story, the Ark was a device to ensure the continuation of the species through the flood, right? Because the whole world was going underwater, therefore all life would have died out. Therefore, in order to ensure that life continues, God instructed Noah to carry in his Ark a male and a female of different species, so that these could reproduce and ...well, have life carry on afterwards. That at any rate is the Biblical version.
   
   You're saying that the Quran differs from the Bible in this, and says the flood was local, not global. So then, if the flood was only local, then where is the need for all of that, at all? I don't see that it makes much sense to take such elaborate measures to repopulate one single (local) portion of land that, after the flood, would be fully connected with the rest of the world once again. I can understand --- following the logic of the story --- that Noah himself God wanted to save, and his kin, and maybe ensure the continuity of his bloodline. But why would he need to carry pairs of different species of birds and animals and reptiles and what-have-you? This was just a local flood, remember? Why go to all that trouble, carrying that zoo in that Ark?
   
   
2. Like others have asked you, if this flood was only local, then how could the waters rise up to cover the peak of Ararat? You don't need pen or paper or calculator or computer to just mentally envision it, and realize that the waters could simply not have risen that high at all, if all it was was a local affair.
   
   
3. You've already seen my post #1009.
   
   I'm afraid, heydarian, it seems you're in error in claiming that the Quran states that the flood was local. The fact is, apparently, that the Quran does not actually say anything at all about whether the flood was local or global. That is simply a matter of interpretation. And nor, apparently, is the interpretation unanimous. Apparently many scholars believe, as did those of earlier times, that the flood was a global affair, while some others, like you, believe it was local.
   
   That is, your view is not what is actually stated in the Quran, it is merely one possible interpretation, and not one that is unanimously held.
   
   (Although, to be fair, your particular interpretation may well be the majority interpretation. I've no clue if that's actually the case, like I said my "research" into this amounts to no more than some random google clicks. If that is how it is, then perhaps you could clarify that.)
   
   
4. You're now claiming this flood that is mentioned in the Quran is "historically" documented. Can you show us what historical sources --- that are not derivative of the Quran itself --- back up that particular story?

Hello, wise and well-thought-out master. I enjoyed your comprehensive and beautiful article. Wishing you good health and eternal success.

You too, heydarian. God bless. (I'm not sure the translation software will do justice to the term "FSM", so let's just go with "God" ... )

 

[Scorpion]

I made a list of all the bible characters who appear in the Quran, and supplied reference numbers for them. If anyone wants to look up all the references to Noah in the Quran, these are the numbers.

Noah, 3:33, 6:84, 7:59-64, 7:69, 9:70, 10:71, 11:25-33, 11:36-48, 11:89, 14:9, 17:3, 17:17, 19:58, 21:76, 22:42, 23:23-29, 25:37, 26:105-120, 29:14, 37:75-79, 38:12, 40:5, 40:31, 42:13, 50:12, 51:46, 53:52, 54:9, 57:26, 66:10

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Here are the verses you quote, for people to decide if they are anything to do with Darwin theory.

2.21 Oh ye people ! Adore your guardian lord. Who created you and those who came before you, that ye might become righteous.

2.30 Behold, the lord said to the angels " "I will create a vicegerent on earth " They said "wilt thou place therein one who will make mischief and shed blood ? whilst we do celebrate thy praises and glorify your holy name."

56.61 From changing your forms and creating you (again) in (forms) that ye know not.

70.41 Substitute for them better(men) than they; and we are not to be defeated.

76.28 It is we who created them, and we have made their joints strong ; But when we will we can substitute the like of them by a complete change.

To be honest, it's hard to parse what that actually means at all in any useful detail, let alone try to decide whether it's a good or bad fit with Darwin's theory.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Oh look, Heydarian is back and is ignoring me again.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

I stared at one point for a long time. I put a cover on that spot. I saw other places lit up. It was getting brighter every moment.
I removed the cover of my dazzling point. I saw all the spots are clear. One less and one more. This is how I look now. I hope to see you all soon. And this wish is not far away. it's close. Where you do not know, I will see you. I think of the seventh singularity and the creation of the eighth world. Which is approaching at the speed of light or more. A world with superior technology and evolved human beings and eternal life. Do not want to travel to this beautiful world? This trip is a must. And in fact it will happen. wait. Hope to meet. Good bye

This sounds remarkably like several experience I had which were inspired by an interseting mixture of what should have been a "sociable dose" of mushrooms, topped by some cheap sherry and a whole load of homegrown weed...

 

[sackett]

Darwin was an infidel, and that's all you need to know.

 

[IanS]

Hello dear professor. With respect; This is your opinion about the Quran. I remind you that the Qur'an speaks of a world that is real. And these scientific allusions were only for motivation. To excite you and me to seek to discover these scientific facts. He did not give details in most cases. Until we discover it. This is a new management idea. We have no claims. The Qur'an itself tells the truth. You think I'm prejudiced. No, it is not. I told my friends that Darwin's theory was also mentioned in the Qur'an...

I don't think it's merely opinion to say that the Koran does not really describe any neutron stars, black holes, or dark energy. And it did not describe evolution either.

It's simply a true fact that none of that is described in the Koran, or in the bible. There is nothing in any ancient holy books except what ordinary mortal men knew about, or guessed, or belived at the time.

However, what is also a fact, is that Muslims and Christians very often dishonestly claim that such things (ie modern science) are described in the holy books.

As for my "opinion" on the Koran - I think it's like all the other ancient religious writing ; it's a mass of educationally ignorant beliefs that describe the superstitions that were commonplace in all civilisations thousands of years.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

What on Earth was God's point if the Flood was only local? Were the bad people only local? What about the bad people who lived elsewhere? Did they not also deserve to be killed?

 

[IanS]

Is this a flounce? It sounds like a flounce. A prettified flounce, classier than most, but a flounce nonetheless.

You know, if a believer came here with a scripture that read something like "god created the conditions that made life possible; then he saw man, and said, 'yeah, ok, I guess I can live with that,'" I wouldn't bother arguing with it or them- the god is an unnecessary add-on, but at least it's not a pretense to anything more than pure faith. But, no, you don't get to claim that your particular faith supports, even anticipates, a theory that, in fact, it contradicts in that theory's operative essential without some pushback on the obvious logical inconsistency.

It looks like a flounce. Though I think he said once before that he was leaving, and then he decided to pop back and tell us again how he is certain that the Koran must always be correct.

Heydarian, if you are still reading these replies, then I want to say that we all understand that it must be very difficult for you to keep replying to so many people who are strongly disagreeing with you. But a very simple and far better thing for you to do, if you really truly wanted to understand why we all say your faith cannot be correct, is to just deal with one claim at a time ... i.e.; just raise one claim (whatever you consider the most important claim) that you have from the Koran ... and lets get that one fully evaluated and decided first, i.e. before you raise a dozen other issues at the same time.

 

[junkshop]

Well, that was all rather disappointing.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Hello. Continue answering your questions and content.
- Yes, there is Noah and the story of his ark is real and it happened. Noah is a Hebrew word and is mentioned in the book of Genesis as well as in Surah Noah. The wreckage of Noah's ark and its landing site on Mount Judi in the Ararat
Mountains can be seen.

[snip]

Great. If the "ark and its landing site on Mount Judi in the Ararat Mountains can be seen", what are the co-ordinates? You can use Google Maps to show where.

 

[steenkh]

Great. If the "ark and its landing site on Mount Judi in the Ararat Mountains can be seen", what are the co-ordinates? You can use Google Maps to show where.

Actually, he didn’t say the ark and it’s landing site can be seen, only the mountain.

This is much like how bible bashers think that the bible is proven true because historical cities are mentioned in the bible.

The same method can be used to prove that Harry Potter is a true story because London is mentioned.