The supernatural

[Pixel42]

Hello. Because he considers man an evolved animal. And this is wrong.

Human beings are animals. Specifically, we are mammals. We evolved like all other animals did. This is a proven fact. Wishing it were otherwise, and making up silly stories about something that happens naturally during the foetal development of every mammal being somehow magical for our kind of mammal only, will not change that fact.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The James Randi Educational Foundation and the million dollar challenge were both wound up some years ago when Randi retired. James Randi sadly died last year.

There are other organisations which still offer a prize for a successful demonstration of the existence of the supernatural but, as was also the case with JREF, the prize will only be awarded after the demonstration, it cannot be used to fund it.

I don't understand exactly what the experiment is that you are proposing but it sounds like you are talking about cloning a human being, which I believe is currently illegal everywhere in the world.

Is it your contention that a cloned embryo will not be entered by a soul, i.e. will not start to move at the usual stage of development? If so I'm impressed, because that is an actual, testable, prediction which would indeed be evidence for the supernatural.

I would, however, point out that (a) in vitro fertilisation of human beings has been carried out successfully for years and (b) other animals have been successfully cloned whose embryonic development proceeded normally.

You do understand that there is a point at which the embryo starts to move in all mammals, not just in human beings? So if you're saying this is the point at which a soul enters the embryo then all mammals have souls? And some mammals (e.g. the famous Dolly the Sheep) have already been successfully cloned?

Hello and thanks for your reply. I mean almost like you. Yes, a point in the development of the fetus has movement and perception. This point is in 4 to 6 months. If the body of the fetus is complete, after a short time in the same period when I said, the soul enters the body of the fetus and movement and perception occur.
I suggested that we do this in a laboratory to see when the fetus begins to move and perceive. In fact, this is the time when the soul enters the body. And it is extremely important. I further suggested that we do human cloning from the beginning of the viable sex cell to the end of the embryonic stage. Of course, you say that human cloning is forbidden. I did not know. Thank you for your information. I had a question: did the cloning of the dolly sheep go through the living cell from the beginning and all the embryonic stages?
Again, please tell me the reasons for proving God in your own way, as you said before. It is very important to me. I want to know and check. please.
Thanks a lot

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Hello. Because he considers man an evolved animal. And this is wrong.

Really, stop trying to talk to anyone about biology or evolution, as you clearly know nothing about either, as repeated statements of the kind quoted demonstrate.

Just because you don't like the idea that you are an animal which evolved in the same way as other animals doesn't change anything.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The universe has no creator.


Exactly.

The most logical place to end it is at the first step, the universe. Adding an additional step, God, and arbitrarily deciding to end it there is not logical. It creates an unnecessary additional level of complication with no additional explanatory power.

I brought 5 logical and philosophical arguments to prove God to my dear association. Can you read these 5 arguments for having a God of the universe? In any case, how did the universe, which is matter, come into being? He himself can not create or create himself for the 5 reasons I have said. So how was it created? This answer is extremely important to me. Would you please comment on this? Thank you

 

[heydarian saeed]

That does not look like logic to me. That looks like a lack of imagination. It's an argument that everything must have a maker, which in turn had a maker, until eventually there's something that doesn't need a maker, therefore that final thing must be the God of my religion. No. That does not follow.

If it is possible for anything to spontaneously come into existence, or possible for any thing to somehow always have existed, then it is not necessarily the case that this thing has to be a conscious all-powerful entity which chooses to create the universe. It might be the universe itself.

Hello. I am not telling you now with the religion of Islam and the Qur'an that the universe must be constructive. Rather, logic and philosophy say that the universe is: because it is made of variable matter - because it is mobile - because it is made up of matter and form that are interdependent. Therefore, a creator must have. Note that logic says not religion. Now I speak to you like an atheist. And I want you to logically tell me how the world was made? Does it have a manufacturer? If not, how is it fixed? You answer me logically. For example, I am an infidel. But I want to search and find the answers to these questions. Please answer me logically. Thanks a lot

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Again, all you are doing is assuming that you are correct. You've put no arguments forth and have provided no evidence. Every single one of your "logical" arguments has just been the assumption that you are correct when you clearly do not have a good grasp of science at all.

 

[Pixel42]

I further suggested that we do human cloning from the beginning of the viable sex cell to the end of the embryonic stage. Of course, you say that human cloning is forbidden. I did not know. Thank you for your information.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to actually learn something about a subject before making assertions and suggestions about it?

I had a question: did the cloning of the dolly sheep go through the living cell from the beginning and all the embryonic stages?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep)

Again, please tell me the reasons for proving God in your own way, as you said before. It is very important to me. I want to know and check. please.
Thanks a lot

I have nothing further to add on that subject.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I cannot give you objective evidence for rejecting the God hypothesis as I did for the Adam hypothesis, no. I can only give you logical reasons for preferring the hypotheses which do not postulate a God, which I have already done. Several times.

If you do not have objective evidence to disprove God's hypothesis, make a logical argument. Do you not have a logical reason to reject God's hypothesis ?! So is it logical to prefer hypotheses that do not assume God ?! I'm waiting for your logical answer please. Thanks

 

[MarkCorrigan]

She has. Multiple times. As have I. You simply ignore them and pretend they don't exist or tell us we are wrong and confused without any reasoning beyond your say so.

I'll try again. Proposing that the universe was created by a god instead of always existing in some form just multiplies things unnecessarily.

We propose that the universe is eternal (in some form).

You propose that god created it but that god is eternal. All you have done is moved the thing that is eternal back a step without any justification. Do you understand yet?

 

[heydarian saeed]

What did they do? It looks as if what they did was believe something different. There are a lot of religions in the world and you can't believe them all. Some promise horrible torments to those who fail to believe in them. It's more effective at scaring those who already believe into being careful about what they say and do; it's entirely unpersuasive to people who do not already believe. But it does also have the tragic effect of making some think that unbelievers deserve to have terrible things done to them and that their God will be pleased if they do it.

No, dear association. Unbelievers are not punished just for their different beliefs. They took action. They killed many Muslims. And they started a heinous massacre. Unimaginable tortures - killings - committed great discrimination in human rights and many unjust and ugly acts against Muslims. That is why God promised severe punishment. Isn't that logical? If it was because of the difference of opinion, then why did they not accept the opinion of the Muslims and kill them? !!
I personally hate this kind of action, whether it is from infidels or Muslims. And to a humanitarian life where I all agree with all the different ideas together. God always agrees with peace and friendship. We ruin human beings. And we lead to crime and murder. And I hate it.
This world full of war, bloodshed, discord, colonialism, exploitation, slavery, and all evil and ugly deeds God has not said and does not want. Think about it, we humans do this. Of course, unfortunately, some governments still commit such crimes in the name of God, the Qur'an and Islam. See well and then judge correctly. God is holy. The Quran is sacred. Islam is sacred. And they love human beings without any discrimination. We humans are corrupt. And we are bad. Satan celebrates happiness with us humans. That we act so badly and ugly. We have to get well. And ask God for help.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

No actions deserve eternal punishment. None. there is no crime so serious as to deserve eternal torture.

You keep talking about actions of people, and that's all well and good but it isn't just actions. The Quran OUTRIGHT STATES that all non believers should be killed.

Heydarian, I've never hurt another human being, I've not taken part in crusades or anything like that. Do I deserve to be killed simply for thinking the Quran is a book of lies? Because the Quran does. Not governments. The Quran. The Quran states that I should be killed if I do not convert to Islam.

 

[Pixel42]

If you do not have objective evidence to disprove God's hypothesis, make a logical argument.

I already did. Several times.

ETA: Most recently in post 914.

 

[Scorpion]

This world full of war, bloodshed, discord, colonialism, exploitation, slavery, and all evil and ugly deeds God has not said and does not want. Think about it, we humans do this. Of course, unfortunately, some governments still commit such crimes in the name of God, the Qur'an and Islam.

I wonder why there is so much fighting.

Quran surah 2.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you. And that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth and ye know not.

 

[Mojo]

Hello. Because he considers man an evolved animal. And this is wrong.

No, it clearly isn’t.

But in the range of 4 to 6 months, the fetus has been announced.

Indeed, a friend of mine has just announced that he will be becoming a grandfather in about 5 months time. Bu what has this to do with souls?

At the end of my article, I made a practical suggestion that you can see the evidence of the soul entering the fetus if you wish.

No, you didn’t, because your suggestion relied on the assumption that the soul is what makes the foetus start to move. You haven’t established that, and further, you haven’t explained why animals other than humans are capable of movement.

Unfortunately, some of my dear associates did not pay attention or did not read my practical and scientific proposal. My article is over, but unfortunately they did not read my offer.
thank you

Your “offer” is useless because it is incapable of proving your claim.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Why the act?

Why not just say "I have faith and don't need evidence." Why pretend you have evidence you don't have?

 

[Mojo]

Why the act?

Why not just say "I have faith and don't need evidence." Why pretend you have evidence you don't have?

It seems to reveal a certain lack of faith.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Apologetics (which I've never denied angers me on a base level way more than simple faith does, and I'm by no means a fan of faith as a concept) is always that, a game of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

No, dear association. Unbelievers are not punished just for their different beliefs. They took action. They killed many Muslims. And they started a heinous massacre. Unimaginable tortures - killings - committed great discrimination in human rights and many unjust and ugly acts against Muslims. That is why God promised severe punishment. Isn't that logical? If it was because of the difference of opinion, then why did they not accept the opinion of the Muslims and kill them? !!
I personally hate this kind of action, whether it is from infidels or Muslims. And to a humanitarian life where I all agree with all the different ideas together. God always agrees with peace and friendship. We ruin human beings. And we lead to crime and murder. And I hate it.
This world full of war, bloodshed, discord, colonialism, exploitation, slavery, and all evil and ugly deeds God has not said and does not want. Think about it, we humans do this. Of course, unfortunately, some governments still commit such crimes in the name of God, the Qur'an and Islam. See well and then judge correctly. God is holy. The Quran is sacred. Islam is sacred. And they love human beings without any discrimination. We humans are corrupt. And we are bad. Satan celebrates happiness with us humans. That we act so badly and ugly. We have to get well. And ask God for help.

I was brought up in a version of Christianity (Methodism); I did not choose this; when I was allowed to choose I rejected it and have ever since described myself as "atheist", i.e. I do not believe in any and all gods.

I have never taken "action" nor killed anyone (quite the opposite if I throw in parts of my professional life). In many respects I will, if pushed, describe myself as being culturally Methodist.

Would your god still want to punish me? This has a simple yes or no answer - no obfuscation, just yes or no.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

If you do not have objective evidence to disprove God's hypothesis, make a logical argument. Do you not have a logical reason to reject God's hypothesis ?! So is it logical to prefer hypotheses that do not assume God ?! I'm waiting for your logical answer please. Thanks

To repeat for the eleventy oneth time: there is no objective evidence for the existence of any god; simply saying that there is is not close to providing any evidence of something bearing a passing resemblance to objectivity, it is evidence of you continuing to make unsupported assertions.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

I brought 5 logical and philosophical arguments to prove God to my dear association. Can you read these 5 arguments for having a God of the universe? In any case, how did the universe, which is matter, come into being? He himself can not create or create himself for the 5 reasons I have said. So how was it created? This answer is extremely important to me. Would you please comment on this? Thank you

Please provide the post numbers for these "5 logical and philosophical arguments to prove God".