The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

This does not address what I said in any way, shape or form. I can only assume that you missed my point completely.


Cars and houses do not have males and females who get together to produce lots of baby cars and houses on which natural selection can act.

For cars and houses there are only two possible explanations - either they were made by some kind of conscious entity, or they are the result of pure chance. Clearly the latter is so unlikely that the former can be assumed to be true.

For living creatures the fact that they reproduce means there is an alternative explanation: they are the end result of four billion years of evolution by natural selection.

For the existence of the universe there are several possible explanations, one of which is that a conscious entity (i.e. God) created it. This is the least satisfactory explanation, for the reasons I have explained. Alternative explanations are therefore preferred.


If only I could say the same.

Hello madam.
- I did not understand what you mean. Tolfa, upload the statement you said with its document and source.
- So it makes sense that cars and buildings have a builder. Not random. Can you not conclude from this simple logical analogy that the universe is also constructive?
You seem to believe in Darwin's theory. Please read my explanation:
The reason why I chose the interpretation of verse 14 of Surah Al-Mu'minun according to what I have said is because the view of the Qur'an is varied in expressing the creation of man and does not refer to a specific scientific theory and does not refer to it in general and does not go into detail. The above details the developmental stages of the fetus, not the general creation of man), so different interpretations can be offered and there is no problem.
I have already said that there are 76 verses in the Qur'an about the creation of man. The song of Quranic verses is the song of human independent creation. Even if there were stages such as evolutionary types between the creation of man from earth to man (which he said symbolically), the Qur'an never mentions such types. Because it does not refer to scientific details and theories. Over time, if proven otherwise, the Qur'an will not be questioned. And remains perfect. This conveys the author's wisdom that he is God.
In this regard, the reasons for the evolution of types of types of theory have not yet emerged. On the other hand, the content of the verses of the Qur'an is such that it has not explicitly rejected these stages of the evolution of types. Of course, there is no reason to prove it according to the Qur'an. If this theory is ever proven, there is no contradiction with the Qur'an. I have a question: how is it that species evolution does not occur in the case of early animals (such as fish) ?! So that they, like humans, become human after evolution ?!
Darwin's theory is a hypothesis and has not yet reached the stage of scientific and certainty. On the other hand:
The theory of evolution and selection of species, which considers the way of human origin from the natural evolution of apes, does not prove that this is the only way of human and human realization. And man has entered the realm of existence exclusively in this way. Because experience has only one proof message and indicates that something happens in this way.
But it never means that it is impossible to happen otherwise. That is, there may be other ways. Therefore, it does not reject the view of the Qur'an in any way. Also, this theory is never responsible for proving the quality of human origin. Suspicious fossils and researchers' research on proving the theory of evolution of species Although the language is proven, but never the language of negation of other theories.
Therefore, the view of the Qur'an remains strong. Thirdly, this theory, assuming proof and correctness, is never responsible for determining the fate of man in religious texts and the Qur'an. And not responsive.
Out of this discussion; None of the religious texts and the Qur'an claim that the creation of man in man is unique and that no human being before Adam was realized in the historical Adora. That is, the Qur'an does not reject the fossils discovered before man. But Adam was not a descendant of any of them. And is a chosen and chosen being. Who has intellect and responsibility.
I apologize for the long article. Because your question and text needed an explanation.
I am at your service, dear friends.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello madam.

Hello heydarian. You can call me Pixel.

I did not understand what you mean.

I'm afraid I can't explain it any more simply than I already have.

So it makes sense that cars and buildings have a builder. Not random. Can you not conclude from this simple logical analogy that the universe is also constructive?

No of course not. The analogy is to things for which only two possible explanations (created by a conscious entity or assembled by chance) are possible. It does not therefore apply to things for which there are more than those two possible explanations, like complex life forms and the universe.

You seem to believe in Darwin's theory.

I accept the overwhelming evidence that every living thing around us is the result of billions of years of evolution by natural selection, yes.

Please read my explanation:

Your "explanation" is apologetic hand waving which attempts to reconcile well debunked stories with recent scientific discoveries so that you can tell yourself that the Qu'ran is not contradicted.

We've learned a lot since the book was written, of course it doesn't contain that recently acquired knowledge. No further explanation is required.

It is clear from what you write that you are profoundly ignorant of the theory of evolution and the evidence for it. To address some of the more basic misunderstandings:

I have a question: how is it that species evolution does not occur in the case of early animals (such as fish) ?! So that they, like humans, become human after evolution ?!

Because 'human' is not the end point to evolution. There is no end point to evolution. Natural selection tailors different species to different environments. The various species of fish are as well suited to their environments as we are to ours. It's entirely possible that our species, like most, will eventually become extinct and other new species will evolve.

Darwin's theory is a hypothesis and has not yet reached the stage of scientific and certainty.

Wrong. An hypothesis becomes a theory when it is tested and sufficient evidence is found for it to become accepted. Evolution passed that milestone more than a century ago.

Out of this discussion; None of the religious texts and the Qur'an claim that the creation of man in man is unique and that no human being before Adam was realized in the historical Adora. That is, the Qur'an does not reject the fossils discovered before man. But Adam was not a descendant of any of them.

That is just a story, and a pretty silly one. Unless you're saying Adam had no descendants it's refuted by simply examining the human genome, which shows the common ancestry of every human being alive today with all the other species that still exist.

 

[Mojo]

I have a question: how is it that species evolution does not occur in the case of early animals (such as fish) ?!

It does. They’ve just evolved in different directions.

You’re trying to use the “if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys” argument, which is equivalent to asking, “if I’m descended from my father, how can I have siblings?”

 

[Mojo]

I have a question: how is it that species evolution does not occur in the case of early animals (such as fish) ?!

To put it in a different way, try looking at the pictures in Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. It shouldn’t take too long as there is only one of them, and it illustrates perfectly why fish are different from people. Or you could try looking at the famous diagram in Darwin’s ‘Notebook B’ which also illustrates the same point.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Thank you for your response, hedarian saeed. Your unfailing courtesy is appreciated, and the goodwill reciprocated.

However, for some reason, and that reason probably goes beyond purely technical issues to do with your translation software, you seem not to actually absorb what anyone is saying to you, even as you go through the motions of responding to them. For instance, I've twice asked you to explain the sense --- the clearly idiosyncratic sense --- in which you're using the word "laboratory". Even that simple clarification seems beyond your power.

Which is fine, that particular response, and request for clarification, wasn't central to this thread. And I realize that addressing posts from a whole bunch of posters here can get just a bit confusing. If you wish you could pick just one poster from this very page, and take the time and effort to clearly read what they're saying to you. People have taken a good amount of time and effort to clearly and patiently explain to you where exactly you're mistaken. You'd do well to try to understand what they're saying. Pick any one of them --- Pixel42 maybe, or maybe Scorpion, or Cosmic Yak, or Susheel, or anyone else you like --- and just revisit their posts to you in this single page, which shouldn't take you very long, and try to actually understand and only after having clearly understood them to address what they're actually saying. That would make for interesting discussion, and hopefully might rid you of the superstitions that you've carried with you all your life.

As far as this sentence, that you've yourself quoted and highlighted in this post of yours --- "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick --- do you actually understand what is being said there? It's a quote I myself think is really neat. Just think about it. If you should cease to believe in the Quran, and in Allah, and in the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), and so on, then what is left? Is there any way to arrive at all of your articles of faith independently of your belief itself? Take any of your core beliefs, and try it. For instance, take your three most basic beliefs: that Allah created the world, and that Mohammed (PBUH) is his Prophet, and the Quran his message to humanity. How on earth do you know this, independently of your belief itself?

Try answering this clearly, if you would. You might yet, just perhaps, end up outgrowing your superstitions and your blind faith.

Hello dear, thoughtful and wise friend. I will gladly answer your questions one by one. Please help me too.
- So what do you mean by lab? I have given my opinion. Please tell.
- It is a good suggestion to choose only one post per page. Review and answer. Of course, maybe my answer does not agree with the nature of my dear friend, and that is the problem. I try to understand and answer the question of my dear friend.
- Where is my mistake? You say. I'm happy. Are my beliefs wrong? Or understand questions and answers. Or something else. You please tell.
- Now that you have quoted this beautiful sentence from our dear friend, I thought about it again. Does reality say that it remains when we do not even believe in reality? Is that so? If this is great.
- Yes, if I set aside my sanctities, the reality of the universe will remain and continue on its way. Did you mean that? So you are right and I agree. And I think we have to put aside our core beliefs and just think about the reality and whatever it is and how we feel and move on. Did I get it right?
That is, truly free without dependence on any beliefs or prejudices. Well, that's great, and I agree.
- These are: God-Prophet-Quran. They have no external existence and are made by our minds. And we believe in these in vain. Did I get it right?
Or that they have an external existence and we have made something else out of them in our minds. For example, we made a monster. To be afraid of them. Is this opinion I said correct or the first one?
- Yes that's right. But if my faith in these is a correct understanding of external reality and I have made a commitment to science, what explanation should I have? I think that true faith is associated with science, and if it is not, then it will not be faith. It is a superstition. Am I right? Faith basically has the existence of knowledge and cognition associated with science.
- How should I understand this beautiful and sweet discussion with you? What if I understand the cause?
And let me make a brief point with your permission: Belief in the sanctities you have named in terms of a correct vision means adherence to what these sanctities require. It means surrendering to them and following their orders and following them because they want to progress. If not, it is pure superstition. And forced labor.
This is not a mental issue, but must be practiced in the real world and interact with matter and science. In fact, faith is the name of dogmatic acknowledgment combined with commitment and knowledge. And it works when it is optional, not urgent. Man is virtuous in the matter of faith and disbelief.
And emergency faith is of no use.
Help me. Thank you

 

[heydarian saeed]

I did pay attention. You said all religions. Not just some of them. All of them.
Perhaps you should pay more attention to what you post.



Also not true.
Islam copied the Abrahamic religions, but denies many of their claims, states that their believers will be horrifically tortured for all eternity, and persecutes their followers in many Muslim-majority countries all over the world.



Sharia is not a political body of laws: it is a religious one.



Islamic governments are not Islamic? Really?
Islamic law, Sharia law, is not Islamic?
Absolute nonsense, with a side order of No True Scotsman. (Look it up, Mr. Researcher).



So, even though some religions are accepted and endorsed by the Quran, they actually aren't.
You really aren't thinking about this, are you?



A blatant lie.



Yes.



Another lie.
Name an instance of this.



And yet they are still Islamic. How curious. It's almost as if there is plenty of justification for discrimination (dhimmi laws), persecution (laws against blasphemy, e.g. in Pakistan), the killing of innocents (Takfiri doctrine), lying (Taqiyya), the oppression of women and a whole host of other abuses in the Islamic body of work (Quran and Hadith). Oh, and how does your country get along with Saudi Arabia? All tickety-boo? Good friends? What about Iran's meddling in Yemen, Lebanon and Syria? All good-natured Muslim stuff? No. You guys have been killing each other almost from the very foundation of your religion, and you show no signs of stopping. All in the name of Islam.

The problem with fundamentalists is that they, like you, take a literalist reading of their holy books. Daesh and the Taliban are more Muslim than most other Muslims. Moderation, as with Christianity, can only happen if the more inconvenient and bloodthirsty parts of the holy books are quietly ignored.
To believe in the literal truth of the Quran is to adhere to a doctrine of violence and oppression, based on pure superstition- and not even original superstition at that.

Hi dear friend. In the Qur'an, the divine religions are examined and explained. Of course, you are right that the Qur'an and the religion of our Islam are Abrahamic. But we also accept other divine religions. Of course, there are differences in the way we perform and our books. That I do not enter into this discussion. Islamic governments in practice are far from the religion of Islam in some places and do not fully comply with Islam and the Qur'an. My perception of politics is that execution is expedient and lies and trickery. I do not agree with this approach at all. And I do not accept all politics. I just accept some political issues.
Yes, some divine religions are mentioned in the Qur'an. For example, Zoroaster is a divine religion, but it is not mentioned in the Qur'an. Of course, it is mentioned in general. In the case of non-divine religions, it also deals more with the beliefs of infidels and polytheists. And says in general. Divine punishment is not from God. Rather, it is the result of our own actions as human beings. We have several verses that say: If you are good, you will see good, and if you are bad, you will see a bad result. It is our hand. We want torment or heaven.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian answer my questions please. Stop ignoring them and hoping they will go away.

Hi dear friend. I answered your questions. If I have left a question, please ask again. Thank you very much

 

[heydarian saeed]

You you know this is different from the Universe always existing because?

Yes, I know it is different from the universe. Because God is not of the universe. It is not of matter and nature. Matter and nature cannot make themselves. The creator wants and must be someone who has the ability to build the universe. I have a question for you: can a car or a building build itself? Of course, my question is related to the material world, and its creator can be of its own kind, that is, matter. Because man is the builder of machines and buildings and is also made of matter. What about the world? Can he make himself? See the greatness of the sky. Can he make himself? If your answer is yes. How can he make himself? By what mechanism?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hello heydarian. You can call me Pixel.


I'm afraid I can't explain it any more simply than I already have.


No of course not. The analogy is to things for which only two possible explanations (created by a conscious entity or assembled by chance) are possible. It does not therefore apply to things for which there are more than those two possible explanations, like complex life forms and the universe.


I accept the overwhelming evidence that every living thing around us is the result of billions of years of evolution by natural selection, yes.


Your "explanation" is apologetic hand waving which attempts to reconcile well debunked stories with recent scientific discoveries so that you can tell yourself that the Qu'ran is not contradicted.

We've learned a lot since the book was written, of course it doesn't contain that recently acquired knowledge. No further explanation is required.

It is clear from what you write that you are profoundly ignorant of the theory of evolution and the evidence for it. To address some of the more basic misunderstandings:


Because 'human' is not the end point to evolution. There is no end point to evolution. Natural selection tailors different species to different environments. The various species of fish are as well suited to their environments as we are to ours. It's entirely possible that our species, like most, will eventually become extinct and other new species will evolve.


Wrong. An hypothesis becomes a theory when it is tested and sufficient evidence is found for it to become accepted. Evolution passed that milestone more than a century ago.


That is just a story, and a pretty silly one. Unless you're saying Adam had no descendants it's refuted by simply examining the human genome, which shows the common ancestry of every human being alive today with all the other species that still exist.

Hello. I said; The Qur'an does not reject Darwin's theory. Just as Darwin's theory does not have sufficient reasons to reject the Qur'an. Are there different hypotheses or theories for a particular subject? If one of the hypotheses is proven, does it reject the other theories? Can there be different reasons for an event to occur? Is there no compound cause for a disability to occur? Please answer fairly. Thanks

 

[Pixel42]

Yes, I know it is different from the universe. Because God is not of the universe. It is not of matter and nature. Matter and nature cannot make themselves. The creator wants and must be someone who has the ability to build the universe.

And who or what had the ability to build the creator? Because, according to your "logic and philosophy" something must have, because nothing complex (like a car or a building) can exist without being created, right? And there's nothing more complex than your hypothetical God. Even the universe is nothing like as complex as your imagined God would need to be.

And once again: if your answer is the assertion "the creator can exist without having been created" then there is no need to insert a creator into the process at all, because the assertion "the universe can exist without having been created" is just as valid. It's also more parsimonious, and hence preferable.

I have a question for you: can a car or a building build itself? Of course, my question is related to the material world, and its creator can be of its own kind, that is, matter. Because man is the builder of machines and buildings and is also made of matter.

Ignoring my answer to your question and asking it of another poster will not get you anywhere, heydarian.

What about the world? Can he make himself? See the greatness of the sky. Can he make himself? If your answer is yes. How can he make himself? By what mechanism?

The same mechanism by which you are assuming your imagined creator made himself, perhaps? Or maybe the universe/multiverse has always existed in some form, and didn't need to be created? Or maybe it was an uncaused quantum fluctuation? Or ...

But the point, once again, is that explaining the existence of A by postulating the existence of B does not actually explain the existence of A. It just replaces that mystery with the even greater mystery of the existence of B.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello. I said; The Qur'an does not reject Darwin's theory. Just as Darwin's theory does not have sufficient reasons to reject the Qur'an. Are there different hypotheses or theories for a particular subject?

Often, yes. Some are inherently more plausible than others, and some are preferred due to the amount they explain without raising new, more difficult, problems, but until they are tested and evidence gathered in support or opposition to each none can be ruled out entirely.

If one of the hypotheses is proven, does it reject the other theories?

Depends on whether (a) the evidence that confirms one hypothesis also contradicts the others and (b) the confirmed hypothesis completely accounts for the evidence, leaving nothing further for competing hypotheses to explain.

We can rule out the existence of Adam, for example, as even a partial explanation for the current existence of homo sapiens because it fails both those tests.

Can there be different reasons for an event to occur? Is there no compound cause for a disability to occur?

Yes, of course. Some events have multiple causes - mass extinction events, for example, are rarely due to just one thing.

But if we look at all the available evidence for the cause of any particular event and it all supports one hypothesis and contradicts certain others, we can at least safely rule out those others.

 

[Scorpion]

And says in general. Divine punishment is not from God. Rather, it is the result of our own actions as human beings.

No it does not, it says the curse of God is on unbelievers, surah 2.161

Those who reject faith and die rejecting it- On them is Allah's curse and, and the curse of angels and of all mankind.

 

[Scorpion]

Unbelievers in Muhammad are cursed to eternal hell by Allah.

Chapter 4 The Women - An-Nisa: Verse 151
They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Chapter 18 The cave - Al-Kahf: Verse 102
Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

Chapter 18 The cave- Al-Kahf: Verse
And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 64
Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-

Chapter 38 Sad - Sad: Verse 27
Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)!

Chapter 40 The Forgiver - Ghafir: Verse 6
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!

Chapter 51 The winnowing winds - Adh-Dhariyat: Verse 60
Woe, then, to the Unbelievers, on account of that Day of theirs which they have been promised!


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 73
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Chapter 13 The Thunder- Ar-Rad: Verse 32
Mocked were (many) messengers before thee: but I granted respite to the unbelievers, and finally I punished them: Then how (terrible) was my requital!


Chapter 14 Abraham - Ibrahim: Verse 2
Of Allah, to Whom do belong all things in the heavens and on earth! But alas for the Unbelievers for a terrible penalty (their Unfaith will bring them)!-


Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 98
Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!


Chapter 24 The Light - An-Noor: Verse 57
Never think thou that the Unbelievers are going to frustrate (Allah's Plan) on earth: their abode is the Fire,- and it is indeed an evil refuge!

Chapter 32 The Prostration - As-Sajda: Verse 29
Say: "On the Day of Decision, no profit will it be to Unbelievers if they (then) believe! nor will they be granted a respite."

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 8
That (Allah) may question the (custodians) of Truth concerning the Truth they (were charged with): And He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty.

Chapter 41 Explained in detail - Fussilat: Verse 27
But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.


Chapter 42 Council, Consultation - Ash-Shura: Verse 26
And He listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, and gives them increase of His Bounty: but for the Unbelievers their is a terrible Penalty.

Chapter 66 Banning - At-Tahrim: Verse 9
O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty- Al-Anfal: Verse 36
The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-


Chapter 22 The Pilgrimage - Al-Hajj: Verse 72
When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, thou wilt notice a denial on the faces of the Unbelievers! they nearly attack with violence those who rehearse Our Signs to them. Say, "Shall I tell you of something (far) worse than these Signs? It is the Fire (of Hell)! Allah has promised it to the Unbelievers! and evil is that destination!"

Chapter 3 The family of Imran -Aal-e-Imran: Verse 151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!


Chapter 3 The family of Imran - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 178
Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

Chapter 5 The Table Spread - Al-Maeda: Verse 80
Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty - Al-Anfal: Verse 50
If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-

Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 26
But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 49
Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 90
And there were, among the desert Arabs (also), men who made excuses and came to claim exemption; and those who were false to Allah and His Messenger (merely) sat inactive. Soon will a grievous penalty seize the Unbelievers among them.

Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 39
If only the Unbelievers knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the fire from their faces, nor yet from their backs, and (when) no help can reach them!


Chapter 21 The Prophets- Al-Anbiya: Verse 97
Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"

 

[Scorpion]

Hi dear friend. Good time. Of course, the crucifixion of Jesus is mentioned in the Bible, and Lee has minor differences in all four books. We do not intend to criticize the Bible, but we want to say that this is also in the Qur'an and in the history of Jesus as a historical figure. And the fact is that Jesus was not killed and is still alive and with God. I have also negotiated with some Christians and they believe that; "Jesus is not dead and is in us and raises us."

You can't brush the issue aside that easily. The crucifixion is more than mentioned in the bible. There are lengthy and detailed accounts of it taking up many verses. The Quran, on the other hand, says he was not crucified. So either the bible is fiction or the Quran is lies.
(For the skeptics there is also the option that both books are lies)

Of course Christians think Jesus is still alive, because according to the bible he was resurrected after three days.

 

[Mojo]

What about the world? Can he make himself? See the greatness of the sky. Can he make himself? If your answer is yes. How can he make himself? By what mechanism?

Gravity.

 

[Chanakya]

Hello dear, thoughtful and wise friend. I will gladly answer your questions one by one. Please help me too.
- So what do you mean by lab? I have given my opinion. Please tell.
- It is a good suggestion to choose only one post per page. Review and answer. Of course, maybe my answer does not agree with the nature of my dear friend, and that is the problem. I try to understand and answer the question of my dear friend.
- Where is my mistake? You say. I'm happy. Are my beliefs wrong? Or understand questions and answers. Or something else. You please tell.
- Now that you have quoted this beautiful sentence from our dear friend, I thought about it again. Does reality say that it remains when we do not even believe in reality? Is that so? If this is great.
- Yes, if I set aside my sanctities, the reality of the universe will remain and continue on its way. Did you mean that? So you are right and I agree. And I think we have to put aside our core beliefs and just think about the reality and whatever it is and how we feel and move on. Did I get it right?
That is, truly free without dependence on any beliefs or prejudices. Well, that's great, and I agree.
- These are: God-Prophet-Quran. They have no external existence and are made by our minds. And we believe in these in vain. Did I get it right?
Or that they have an external existence and we have made something else out of them in our minds. For example, we made a monster. To be afraid of them. Is this opinion I said correct or the first one?
- Yes that's right. But if my faith in these is a correct understanding of external reality and I have made a commitment to science, what explanation should I have? I think that true faith is associated with science, and if it is not, then it will not be faith. It is a superstition. Am I right? Faith basically has the existence of knowledge and cognition associated with science.
- How should I understand this beautiful and sweet discussion with you? What if I understand the cause?
And let me make a brief point with your permission: Belief in the sanctities you have named in terms of a correct vision means adherence to what these sanctities require. It means surrendering to them and following their orders and following them because they want to progress. If not, it is pure superstition. And forced labor.
This is not a mental issue, but must be practiced in the real world and interact with matter and science. In fact, faith is the name of dogmatic acknowledgment combined with commitment and knowledge. And it works when it is optional, not urgent. Man is virtuous in the matter of faith and disbelief.
And emergency faith is of no use.
Help me. Thank you

Hello, heydarian.

My point was, rather than perfunctorily touching on all posts and actually resolving (or even effectively addressing, or for that matter even properly understanding) any of them, it might be better to choose one single post from one single poster, and clearly resolve that, before moving on to something else.


For instance, in your exchanges with Pixel42 on this page, your ignorance about evolution is in clear display. Perhaps you could exchange a few posts with her until you clearly understand your mistake. Towards that end, you might begin with where you'd suggested to her that since cars and buses clearly have a manufacturer, therefore the universe must also, necessarily, have a creator. Pixel42's clearly explained to you how that is mistaken, but apparently you did not understand. You could revisit that single and simple issue, and exchange a few posts with her until you clearly understand what is being said to you, and in what respect you are mistaken. (Of course, you don't have to take my word for it that you're mistaken. Just get into the discussion sincerely, and make sure not to bail out from that simple focused subject until you've discussed it clearly and thoroughly.)


You've asked me to tell you what a laboratory is, and what that quote of Philip K Dick actually means. That's very easily answered, but so as not to take away from the focus that I suggested just now, perhaps you could, instead, just finish with that portion of the discussion with Pixel42. Good luck.




(None of this is to remotely suggest that you ignore other posters, only that you actually engage with what's said to you. The small focused issue I identified above seemed simple enough and straightforward enough, and shouldn't take too much time and effort to resolve, even given the translation software thing, if discussed sincerely.)

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Don't you jusy love someone who clearly does not understand Darwin and evolution trying to tell you how Darwin is wrong and how evolution doesn't work, especially while mangling scientific terminology?

 

[turingtest]

Don't you jusy love someone who clearly does not understand Darwin and evolution trying to tell you how Darwin is wrong and how evolution doesn't work, especially while mangling scientific terminology?

"Why are they still fish?" was especially hilarious. It's just not possible to have anything like a productive conversation about the TOE with someone whose understanding of it fails at such an elementary level.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Why are nematodes still nematodes? Idle bastards! They've been around longer than most, yet there they are, still nematoding around.

Nautilus? You lazy git, not bothering to change for so many millions of years! And don't get me started on coelocanths!

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Hi dear friend. In the Qur'an, the divine religions are examined and explained. Of course, you are right that the Qur'an and the religion of our Islam are Abrahamic. But we also accept other divine religions. Of course, there are differences in the way we perform and our books. That I do not enter into this discussion. Islamic governments in practice are far from the religion of Islam in some places and do not fully comply with Islam and the Qur'an. My perception of politics is that execution is expedient and lies and trickery. I do not agree with this approach at all. And I do not accept all politics. I just accept some political issues.
Yes, some divine religions are mentioned in the Qur'an. For example, Zoroaster is a divine religion, but it is not mentioned in the Qur'an. Of course, it is mentioned in general. In the case of non-divine religions, it also deals more with the beliefs of infidels and polytheists. And says in general. Divine punishment is not from God. Rather, it is the result of our own actions as human beings. We have several verses that say: If you are good, you will see good, and if you are bad, you will see a bad result. It is our hand. We want torment or heaven.

I spent a fair amount of time going through yout post point by point, and addressing those points.
This....this is just rude. I see no point in continuing with this discussion: you are content to spam this forum with copy-and-paste bilge, and blithely ignore most responses, not just from me, but from many others too.
I wish the rest of you luck with heydarian, but I'm out. Life's too short for this.