The supernatural

[Scorpion]

heydarian, most of the Quran is plagiarism from the bible, and the reference to smoke can be found there too.

Isaiah 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.


acts 2:19
And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Joel 2:30

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

 

[Scorpion]

No dear friend. This is a strange meaning you put in the post. Muhammad did not say anything about himself. There was only one messenger (the prophet; that is, one who brings a message to others). He is not literate at all to know what is going on in the universe? All he said were messages inspired by God. Muhammad has no other matter. A human being like other human beings.
And ... Muhammad and others imagined the star to be just lights that seem to be stuck on the roof of the sky! And they had no other idea. But later God inspired Muhammad with the Qur'an that; These that are in the sky are not lights attached to it but stars. And move in a specific orbit in the sky and flow. And for demons, he does not use the word star, but says meteorite! (Surah As-Saaffat, verses 6 and 10)
Thank you

Al Saffat verses 37.6 to 37.10 seem to me to be talking about the stars being missiles to throw at obstinate spirits.

This is confirmed in verse 67.5

And we have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and we have made such lamps as missiles to drive away the evil ones,

 

[Scorpion]

Hello dear friend of the association. The meaning of the verse; It refers to the six events of the Big Bang. After the first sky, the neutron star reached the Big Bang stage and the next sky came into being. And this process is repeated six times. As you know, the universe was created by the greatness of creation and the heavens in six periods of the Big Bang, each about 18 billion light-years away. Seven Skies is the result of six Big Bangs. Which is "mentioned" in this verse.
And now we are in heaven or the seventh period. And almost 14 billion light-years have passed since then. And almost 4 billion light years later (according to human science) the seventh Big Bang event will occur and the eighth sky, which is the world and the world of the Hereafter (Resurrection), will be created. Of course, this talk is taken from astronomical and up-to-date calculations as well as Quranic references. But no one knows the exact story. And maybe it's a hypothesis.
And now we are in heaven or the seventh period. And almost 14 billion light-years have passed since then. And almost 4 billion light years later (according to human science) the seventh Big Bang event will occur and the eighth sky, which is the world and the world of the Hereafter (Resurrection), will be created. And that he says we built the seven heavens above you, that is, above you, is because we humans assume that the sky is above us, but in reality this is not the case, but we and the planet Earth are floating in the sky. And our relationship with the sky is transverse, not longitudinal. And these conversations are taken from astronomical and up-to-date calculations as well as Quranic references. But no one knows the exact story. And maybe it's a hypothesis.
Thank you for your attention and for the post you leave.

Hypothesis is the word. Yusuf Ali has another explanation for the words the seven heavens, and his theory seems a lot more credible than yours.

He says the seven heavens as described in the Quran are a series of spheres which surround the earth in layers and that explains the movement of the planets, they are on different levels one above the other.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Heydarian why are you ignoring me? Stop running away and answer me please.

 

[Chanakya]

Heydarian why are you ignoring me? Stop running away and answer me please.

He seems to be ignoring everyone and everything. Even when he's responding to someone, he's only going through the motions, and not actually addressing anything that's been said, simply throwing in random words and circling back to his thinly veiled proselytizing.

Had he actually tried to respond to the posts here, then, given that quite a few posters here seem well acquainted with the Quran, this thread might have made for an interesting discussion.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

He did respond, at least sort of earlier in the thread but recently he's taken to just straight up ignoring that I exist apparently.

 

[Chanakya]

... Conclusions from the above scientific discussion: ...

Hello, heydarian. What you've presented here is not a scientific discussion, at all.


Just to clear up what may simply be a confusion over how you're using these words, would you please define these terms as you're using them in this thread?

(1) Laboratory

(2) Supernatural

(3) Science/ scientific


Also: (4) You seem to have two separate discussions going here. One relates to showing us that the supernatural exists; and the other one's about how in your view the Quran anticipates recent scientific discoveries as well as promotes world peace, moral living, happiness, et cetera. It isn't clear how you intend to go about attempting the first part. Can you spell it out, how it is you intend to try to show us that the supernatural exists?

 

[Scorpion]

He did respond, at least sort of earlier in the thread but recently he's taken to just straight up ignoring that I exist apparently.

I think its because you changed the subject from science in the Quran to the moral issues in the Quran against unbelievers.

 

[steenkh]

He did respond, at least sort of earlier in the thread but recently he's taken to just straight up ignoring that I exist apparently.

Look at it as a mark of distinction: he recognizes that he struggles to counter your arguments, and accordingly, he ignores it.

But even when actually replying to a post, he usually ignores what is in the post, and just says that we should read some other unspecified source to find the answer.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Hello. Thank you for telling me an interesting story from Mr. Saeed Norsi. Unfortunately, I do not know them at all and their article and activities. And I do not know.

There is clearly a great deal you do not know- or pretend not to know. This does not add credence to your claims.
The fact remains that the arguments advanced by Muslim scholars in favour of Islam, and against atheism, are as amusing as they are pitiful.

I tell all my friends that; I do not follow any group or sect.

So you're not a Muslim?

And I am not supported by any organization or institution.

Apart from the Iranian University you claim to study at, and where you claim to have done your lab research, that you also say you haven't done, because you haven't got a lab.
Right.

I am only a Muslim.

I thought you didn't belong to any group or sect?
By the way, as you are Iranian, are you a Shi'ite?

And free. I have no prejudice against my words if they are wrong. And I will correct it.

Rubbish. You have lied from your very first post on this forum, and continue to do so.

I do not preach for any religion or book.

Oh, great. So you're not a Muslim, and you don't want people to read and believe in the Quran.
Excellent.

I just introduced myself: I am a Muslim and I love the Qur'an

Wait- what? So you are a Muslim, and you are preaching for a book.
Make your mind up. Seriously.

and I am looking for a new science in the Qur'an

No, you are not. You are parroting the words of others. And you clearly don't have the first idea about science.

I am telling you about the supernatural. "Science and perception" is supernatural.

Thus clearly proving- as if any more proof was needed- that you have no understanding of science at all.
Third time of asking: are you reading the Quran in the original Arabic, or are you relying on translations?

 

[Scorpion]

Third time of asking: are you reading the Quran in the original Arabic, or are you relying on translations?

Heydarian is using an obscure translation by Uthman Taha. It is available on the internet as a PDF download.

I find the translation inconsistent with most of the other translations I have access to.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Forget the Million Dollar Challenge, this one fails the Turing Test.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Heydarian is using an obscure translation by Uthman Taha. It is available on the internet as a PDF download.

I find the translation inconsistent with most of the other translations I have access to.

I see.
So heydarian's insistence that his translation, and his alone, is the only accurate one, is incorrect, and somewhat dishonestly self-serving.
I do believe, though, that in certain sects of Islam (e.g. the Assassins), lying in the service of Islam is permitted. Might explain some of the approach.

 

[sackett]

I searched for NASA pages about the Big Bang. None of the results on the first page even mentions smoke....

No no. Big BHANG. Search again, you're sure to find smoke. Lots of smoke.

 

[Robin]

heydarian, most of the Quran is plagiarism from the bible, and the reference to smoke can be found there too.

Isaiah 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.


acts 2:19
And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Joel 2:30

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

Just a quibble, it is not plagiarism since the Quran acknowledges the prior texts.

 

[Robin]

The idea of seven heavens goes back to ancient Mesopotamian times. Around the time the Quran was written the idea of "Seven Heavens" was a popular idea of the cosmos, a simplification of the Aristotlean and Ptomelaic system.

It seems likely that the Quran is simply referring to this idea, which would likely be a common idea at the time.

 

[Robin]

In Surah Fussilat Allah creates the Earth and sets the mountains in place and then he directs his attention to the heavens formed them into seven heavens.

It would take a lot of imagination to go from this to scientific accuracy.

 

[Susheel]

No no. Big BHANG. Search again, you're sure to find smoke. Lots of smoke.

Bhang is not smoked...

 

[heydarian saeed]

I’d love to see your evidence that this is “according to human science”.

By the way, do you know what is measured in light-years?

Hi dear friend. In addition to the relevant sites for astronomical calculations and light years, etc., I would like to introduce to you the book "Creation of the Universe" and the subtitle "The Meaning of the Universe" by Fred Heeren, which is a comprehensive and good book in this regard. Good luck.

 

[Pixel42]

Hi dear friend. In addition to the relevant sites for astronomical calculations and light years, etc., I would like to introduce to you the book "Creation of the Universe" and the subtitle "The Meaning of the Universe" by Fred Heeren, which is a comprehensive and good book in this regard. Good luck.

Mojo, like everyone else you're talking to, already knows perfectly well what light years are, and doesn't need book recommendations from you.

What he is trying to find out is whether you know what you're talking about, or are simply mindlessly parroting your sources.

This response, like most of your resources, suggests the latter.

If you want to be taken seriously you need to be able to answer such questions in your own words. Though frankly that ship has already sailed.