The Jan. 6 Investigation

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RecoveringYuppy said:
It all seems to be there to me and this seems like we've gone too far down excessive nitpicking and I really don't see the benefit of trying to micro manage the prosecutors.
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Ok, if you see the prosecutors claiming that zip-tie guy only wanted to prevent the police from having zip-ties somewhere in that filing, I'd appreciate a quote.
 
When your wife walks in and catches you banging the babysitter, if your first response is to demand she define "sex", you're admitting to the affair.

This is no more complicated than that.
 
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theprestige said:
I'd settle for "an actionable plan to overthrow the government and/or assassinate members of the government".

Honestly most of the ANTIFA/BLM protests over the preceding year were probably better organized than this thing.
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Had attendance been limited to mostly DC residents, or a handful of adjacent states, maybe that would show the same level of organization. For the protests, they were almost entirely comprised of residents of the city the protest was occurring. People came from all over the country to meet in DC all on the same day and time. In fact, given that many of the same groups and people were seen/arrested at the protests that spontaneously all decided to show up to the Capitol on the same day and time, the case could be made that they were practicing by organizing to crash protests.
 
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We're talking "Prove to me there was planning" and they had goddamn t-shirts printed up.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
To the first bolded: Maybe, but what they have to say will be true, no need to posture or exaggerate.

To the second: After just writing your first paragraph, I thought the second one disproved the first. IOW the GOP looks really bad and if they looked that bad, why would you say the Democrats would be posturing?

I think I understand what you meant but honestly, everything is not purely political. Some things are actually true what legislators say in press conferences. Are you suggesting the Democrats say nothing? The GOP is doing all it can to sweep this very serious thing under the rug. Too bad for them it still shows as very large noticeable lumps under their rug.
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Well, I guess we'll see. I think they've badly mishandled the Mueller hearings and the impeachment investigation, and they were ready to anoint Michael Cohen the next messiah when he came to talk, so they have a bit of unimpressive recent history in these public hearings in my opinion. But, maybe they'll take a different approach this time.
 
theprestige said:
I'd settle for "an actionable plan to overthrow the government and/or assassinate members of the government".

Honestly most of the ANTIFA/BLM protests over the preceding year were probably better organized than this thing.
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So you'd agree it doesn't need to be competent? After all, a bumbling thief is still a thief.
 
I guess I don't follow, is it that the assault on the capitol itself wasn't organized enough? Because I think months of lawsuits, press conferences, pressuring the DOJ and Pentagon, calls to various local officials to decertify election results, and ultimately the theory that Mike Pence had the power to choose the next president and if only someone would stop him from choosing Biden belies a certain level of organization that BLM and ANTIFA never had.
 
The point is that arguing about how "organized" it has to be before its a coup is completely besides the point, which is why it's all the trolls want to talk about.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
What do you think a frenzied mob would have done had they gotten their hands on any of those unarmed legislators?
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Not carry out a conspiracy to assassinate legislators, that's for sure. A mob acting in the heat of the moment is pretty much the opposite of a planned act of violence.

Look at all the looting and arson and sometimes even death that occurred during the antifa/BLM protests. You think those protest organizers intended for that to happen? When protestors in Portland, OR barricaded people inside a police station and then set fire to it, that was something they'd conspired to do ahead of time?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the other goose that identifies as a gander.
 
theprestige said:
Not carry out a conspiracy to assassinate legislators, that's for sure. A mob acting in the heat of the moment is pretty much the opposite of a planned act of violence.

Look at all the looting and arson and sometimes even death that occurred during the antifa/BLM protests. You think those protest organizers intended for that to happen? When protestors in Portland, OR barricaded people inside a police station and then set fire to it, that was something they'd conspired to do ahead of time?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the other goose that identifies as a gander.
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*sniff* *sniff*. Ahhhh, fresh roasted whataboutism.
 
theprestige said:
Not carry out a conspiracy to assassinate legislators, that's for sure. A mob acting in the heat of the moment is pretty much the opposite of a planned act of violence.

Look at all the looting and arson and sometimes even death that occurred during the antifa/BLM protests. You think those protest organizers intended for that to happen? When protestors in Portland, OR barricaded people inside a police station and then set fire to it, that was something they'd conspired to do ahead of time?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the other goose that identifies as a gander.
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It wasn't a mob acting in the heat of the moment for many of them. It certainly wasn't for the Oath keepers and the Proud Boys. They had plans to disrupt democracy and the transition of power.

These were people invited to the White House and were told to go to the Capitol and fight. They brought guns and other weapons with them. They had people with guns across the river ready to supply them with firearms.

This was a deliberate act of insurrection for many of them and a lot of them said this on social media posts. Some of these people may have been tourists but a great many of them were traitors and should be punished appropriately.

But the people who really should be punished severely is Trump, Giuliani, Flynn, Jordan and others.
 
dirtywick said:
Well, I guess we'll see. I think they've badly mishandled the Mueller hearings and the impeachment investigation, and they were ready to anoint Michael Cohen the next messiah when he came to talk, so they have a bit of unimpressive recent history in these public hearings in my opinion. But, maybe they'll take a different approach this time.
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You can't blame the Democrats for any of that. Dump controlled everything from having Barr quash the Mueller report to pressuring the GOP controlled Senate with threats of primary-ing any legislator that faced reelection. And that's not to mention how many of them were already Dump cultists for the same reason: Dump cultists have a lot of votes. And Dump now controls the party.
 
theprestige said:
I'd settle for "an actionable plan to overthrow the government and/or assassinate members of the government".

<snip whataboutism>
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Jan 6 was planned. It resulted in a violent attack on congress intended to overturn the election. Not merely actionable. Acted upon.

Just how much action do you require?
 
varwoche said:
Jan 6 was planned. It resulted in a violent attack on congress intended to overturn the election. Not merely actionable. Acted upon.

Just how much action do you require?
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No amount of proof will change this guys mind.
I think he is one of those whose only real regret is that the coup did not suceed.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Ziggurat has just defended himself but note that it should not be necessary to have asked. This was perfectly apparent from context provided by the quotes he replied to and by other things he said. Note that he acknowledged some level of conspiracy, "loons in the basement".
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No! This is not mere "loons in the basement". Read what I posted earlier, and more importantly, read the links, especially the full content on the indictments.

smartcooky said:
Oath Keepers

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/thre...rs-indicted-federal-court-conspiracy-obstruct

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oath-keepers-indicted-conspiracy-capitol-riots-kenneth-harrelson/

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...nspiracy-charges-related-jan-6-capitol-breach

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fo...eral-conspiracy-case-court-filing-2021-05-31/

Proud Boys

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/9793...arged-with-conspiracy-over-jan-6-capitol-riot

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...oys-members-arrested-connection-jan-6-capitol

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/19/politics/proud-boys-indictment-capitol/index.html

Three Percenters

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/us/politics/three-percenter-capitol-riot.html
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These groups are NOT "loons in the basement".. they are competent, trained people who planned to start shooting and killing people on the day if they got the word from Trump, which they were expecting would come. They stashed arms outside the Capitol for that purpose.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...trump/65-5f96c626-2b45-4aa5-8867-35c12f0426e5

They used those "loons in the basement" as useful idiotsfor cover and a distraction. Many of the were former military personnel, and they used combat tactics in an attempt to achieve their aims!
 
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smartcooky said:
No! This is not mere "loons in the basement". Read what I posted earlier, and more importantly, read the links, especially the full content on the indictments.



These groups are NOT "loons in the basement".. they are competent, trained people who planned to start shooting and killing people on the day if they got the word from Trump, which they were expecting would come. They stashed arms outside the Capitol for that purpose.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...trump/65-5f96c626-2b45-4aa5-8867-35c12f0426e5

They used the "loons in the basemen" as cover and a distraction. Many of the were former military personnel, and they used combat tactics in an attempt to achieve their aims!
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I have to disagree about the competent part. A major reason it failed was sheer ineptitude.
 
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