Moderated Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[Jack by the hedge]

But you *do* want people to pay, Gaetan. You want people to pay in kind. You want everyone to contribute work of equal value instead of just taking without contributing. That's the only way your imagined society could produce any goods for people to take.

So you're arguing that everyone wants to take stuff for nothing and yet want a world where they can't do that; the people have to give and keep giving even though nobody's measuring their contribution, otherwise the system breaks down.

You want a world where everyone has to voluntarily do the very thing you keep insisting they don't want to do. How are you going to make them do it?

 

[Gaetan]

measuring their contribution,

You never know how much you fellows are creasy

 

[MarkCorrigan]

What does that even mean? What is creasy?

 

[Joecool]

We don't need experiment to prove that if a product is at 10$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% will take the product at 0$, l the rest didn't check the price. You can always say that you want to pay for the work of neighbour but it is not true. People say and do a lot but that not always the way they feel in their hart. I am not saying that you are not willing to give something but that's not the way you fell in your hart, you rather the free stuff and not pay at all.

That's totally false. Some people buy a car, say a Ford Escort for say $20,000.

Some people are perfectly happy paying $50,000 for a Lexus.

I can debunk another one of your myths. I just got home from helping a friend clear out a pasture that he wants to use to raise animals and grown some crops. I paid for my own airfare and worked for 3 full days with no compensation. I even bought this friend some supplies because I'm financially secure and can afford to help out a friend in need.

No if I had to keep working to provide food for myself and my family, I would have no time (or resources) to help others.

 

[Leftus]

We don't need experiment to prove that if a product is at 10$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% will take the product at 0$

And yet you have ZERO real world example where that actually happens. And despite being asked for an example, you refuse to provide one. Because, as we all know, you don't have one. But rather than admit that you've pulled this example out of your ass, you reassert it and lie.

Here is a real world example. MP3s are available for free on various pirate sites. However, most people pay for subscriptions stream or buy their music for a buck or two. Free versus a buck or two. Yet people pay that buck or two, despite years of music piracy.

So, again, the ball is in your court to provide a real world example that supports your lies. But we won't get that will we. You will reassert and lie, because that is what you do.

You can always say that you want to pay for the work of neighbour but it is not true. People say and do a lot but that not always the way they feel in their hart. I am not saying that you are not willing to give something but that's not the way you fell in your hart, you rather the free stuff and not pay at all.

Again, I gave you a real world example where this is not true. I even offered to provide proof, in a few weeks, when dog gets his nails clipped that not only did I pay, but gave a fairly healthy tip on top for the quality service.

I know, all of this fact stuff that you can't refute, drives you back into the cycle of reassert and lie, but please, take what is offered at face value. Is it impossible that I tipped for a service that I could not perform myself? Nope. So take it as possible. You thrive on examples that don't exist in the real world. Come back down to Earth, and readjust your claims to things that not only actually happen, but do, on a daily basis. Then you wont have to lie. You have no idea how I feel in my heart. Even if 99.99% of the worlds population felt that way, that does not mean that I do. Just because it's how you feel, doesn't mean anyone else shares that desire.

 

[Leftus]

What does that even mean? What is creasy?

I don't know about you, but I got up and ironed my sweat pants and T shirt to remove all the creases. I am not creasy.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You never know how much you fellows are creasy

I guess you meant "crazy". Okay, if I'm crazy then you explain to us how you intend to check whether people are putting in a hard day's work in your imaginary world. You need everyone to work hard to do their part but you keep insisting people want to get something for nothing.

If people want to get something for nothing how are you going to prevent them from contributing nothing of value?

This is a completely serious question. Sometimes you say everyone will give and take equally and sometimes you insist people want to take without giving at all. Well, which is it?

 

[The Man]

We don't need experiment to prove that if a product is at 10$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% will take the product at 0$, l the rest didn't check the price. You can always say that you want to pay for the work of neighbour but it is not true. People say and do a lot but that not always the way they feel in their hart. I am not saying that you are not willing to give something but that's not the way you fell in your hart, you rather the free stuff and not pay at all.

No, what I feel in my heart is the valuation of workers, being one myself. Again, why I often pay people to do things I could quite easily do myself. Again, not just the cheapest people but specifically to the higher end of the cost bracket. Simply, because I want the quality of work that I could do myself.

 

[The Man]

I don't know about you, but I got up and ironed my sweat pants and T shirt to remove all the creases. I am not creasy.

Ah, but when you sit down, the creasyness creeps up upon you !!!!

 

[Joecool]

And yet you have ZERO real world example where that actually happens. And despite being asked for an example, you refuse to provide one. Because, as we all know, you don't have one. But rather than admit that you've pulled this example out of your ass, you reassert it and lie.

Here is a real world example. MP3s are available for free on various pirate sites. However, most people pay for subscriptions stream or buy their music for a buck or two. Free versus a buck or two. Yet people pay that buck or two, despite years of music piracy.

I have another decent example that Gaetan will ignore. I'm from Hawaii and mangos are very popular during the summer. They are a treat and delicacy if prepared correctly, or just eaten cold.

My friend has a huge mango tree and gets a bumper crop. He gives away most of the mangos as he can't eat them all by himself and doesn't feel a need to sell them.

Basically, anyone who knocks on his door and asks, he would gladly give a few mango away for free.

But despite the fact that they are free, people still steal them. My friend told me that he came home one day and someone had gone in his yard and stole all the mangos off his tree despite that fact that he would give them away for free.

 

[Leftus]

I have another decent example that Gaetan will ignore. I'm from Hawaii and mangos are very popular during the summer. They are a treat and delicacy if prepared correctly, or just eaten cold.

My friend has a huge mango tree and gets a bumper crop. He gives away most of the mangos as he can't eat them all by himself and doesn't feel a need to sell them.

Basically, anyone who knocks on his door and asks, he would gladly give a few mango away for free.

But despite the fact that they are free, people still steal them. My friend told me that he came home one day and someone had gone in his yard and stole all the mangos off his tree despite that fact that he would give them away for free.

In Gaetan Land, they were entitled to it. Your friend doesn't get to have one. Oh, sure, he put in the work to grow and tend it. But that was in the past. Now it's FREE! But we both know, Gaetan will not address property rights. That derails his entire idea. So for all his hard work growing, maintaining his mango tree, he gets none of his own mangos.

I've been debating if I want to buy some mangos. Maybe for a chutney, or salsa. With some pork. Not sure. I just harvested two Hatch / Anaheim chilis. Got a small problem. Not sure what to do with them. I'm thinking that I'm going to grill them up in some hamburger and see how that goes.

 

[Leftus]

Ah, but when you sit down, the creasyness creeps up upon you !!!!

I take them off when I sit. Zoom and Skype calls are getting me into trouble, but I shall not be Creasy!

 

[Leftus]

This is a completely serious question. Sometimes you say everyone will give and take equally and sometimes you insist people want to take without giving at all. Well, which is it?

Oh, this was covered under the idea that "the community" will scorn someone into being productive. Peer pressure. Blockchain! Algorithms! Who knows. He has also insisted nobody is doing any accounting to catch free loaders.

 

[Joecool]

In Gaetan Land, they were entitled to it. Your friend doesn't get to have one. Oh, sure, he put in the work to grow and tend it. But that was in the past. Now it's FREE! But we both know, Gaetan will not address property rights. That derails his entire idea. So for all his hard work growing, maintaining his mango tree, he gets none of his own mangos.

I've been debating if I want to buy some mangos. Maybe for a chutney, or salsa. With some pork. Not sure. I just harvested two Hatch / Anaheim chilis. Got a small problem. Not sure what to do with them. I'm thinking that I'm going to grill them up in some hamburger and see how that goes.

The utter flaw and madness in Gaetan's land is that he is counting on people to only take "what they need".

We know that is only a pipedream. Even if people only took what they "need", people have different definitions of what they need. Some people "need" extras because they fear running out, etc, or to prepare for a natural disaster.

 

[Gaetan]

I have seen nothing in the gospel that indicates that Jesus spoke out against the principle of using money

When did Jesus accept money as a reward for work done? Can you show one single verse?

 

[abaddon]

When did Jesus accept money as a reward?

It is in your magic book that you haven't read.

 

[abaddon]

What does that even mean? What is creasy?

Creasy is a man on fire.

 

[Joecool]

When did Jesus accept money as a reward for work done? Can you show one single verse?

Jesus may not have used money, but he told people to pay their taxes and the people gave tithes and offerings to the Lord

It's clear that money was okay in the days of Jesus and there wasn't any problem if money was used to do the Lord's word.

Why you can't get this very simple concept is puzzling.

 

[Gaetan]

Jesus may not have used money, but he told people to pay their taxes and the people gave tithes and offerings to the Lord

It's clear that money was okay in the days of Jesus and there wasn't any problem if money was used to do the Lord's word.

Why you can't get this very simple concept is puzzling.

I see that you can't show a single verse.

 

[abaddon]

I see that you can't show a single verse.

How would you know? You have not read it.